New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin

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Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin

Post by Norm » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:20 am

HogDoc,
I'll just leave this here for you...
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/insa ... 59516.html

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Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin

Post by HogDoc » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:28 am

Norm wrote:HogDoc,
I'll just leave this here for you...
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/insa ... 59516.html
I was afraid you were sharing a scheme to make money on dance lessons right after I lugged rubbermaid tub after rubbermaid tub with thousands of dollars worth of dance outfits and dance shoes up to the attic. :D
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Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin

Post by Darin » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:53 pm

HogDoc wrote:
Norm wrote:HogDoc,
I'll just leave this here for you...
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/insa ... 59516.html
I was afraid you were sharing a scheme to make money on dance lessons right after I lugged rubbermaid tub after rubbermaid tub with thousands of dollars worth of dance outfits and dance shoes up to the attic. :D
Hope that tuxedo wasn't in the rubbermaid tubs too. You looked pretty sharp in those wedding photos! ;)
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Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin

Post by HogDoc » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:28 pm

Thanks Sir It was fun and thankfully no pictures of me latter in the evening ;) That Tux is still sitting at the cleaners but I suppose I need to go get it one of these days.
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Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin

Post by mtbkmom » Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:00 pm

LIndners has removed the CTC from the nursery feeds and leaving the Denegard. From my conversation with them it does not sound like they intend on making CTC/Denegard feed. They have removed the Tylan from 685 and does not sound like they will make some with it if a prescription is written. The other feeds that had Linco in it, they are going to make some with and some without.

From our TX producers meeting it sounded like you could store this medicated feed and not require a prescription to keep a closed bag in your facility. The minute the bag opens, you have to go through the process of getting a prescription etc to put that feed in front of your pigs nose.

To me if you have an issue come up, it would be quicker to give Linco by medicator than coordinate getting the medicated feed from your supplier if you (like myself) do not make your own feed.
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Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin

Post by Kathy » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:33 pm

MTBKMOM,

Lindners just announced that all their baby pig feeds (600, 603, 606 and 612) will be switching to the CTC/Denagard combo. Previously I believe the 603-612 were all medicated with Mecadox and Banminth and only the 600 with the CTC/Denagard.
That being said, did you hear the "Denagard only" direct from Lindners? I am only asking because it seems if they are making medication changes now, they would be making those changes in advance of the new regulations.

I know from my point of view (changing all of them to the same) is actually a good move for me. After talking with my vet, he can write a prescription for the CTC/Denagard, and this lets me get ONE script for enough feed throughout the baby pig stages.
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Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin

Post by Kathy » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:35 pm

Also this change is noted on their Facebook page with a link on their website.
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Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin

Post by HogDoc » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:27 am

Just a minor point.

One thing that will not change is that veterinarians will still not have any flexibility to use feed medications in an extra label manner.

So with CTC that means if a veterinarian chooses to write that VFD they won't be able to write it to use CTC longer than 14 days.

It is interesting that they chose to switch away from a medication combination that will not require a VFD (mecadox banmointh) to one that does (CTC). They may be anticipating the loss of mecadox as an option which may well be a good decision.
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Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin

Post by mtbkmom » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:16 am

I spoke to a lady that answered the phone at Lindners. She got the "sheet of paper" will all of the changes noted on it. Went back to the sheet I was taking notes on as she was talking..this is what I wrote down and think I took accurate notes. Of course....they have the "subject to change bail out".

She stated:
600-pull the CTC and Denegard only
603 & 606 is OK the way it is (MX and BN)
612-pull the CTC and Denegard only
611-pull the CTC and make it med with/without Linco
632-keep the Safeguard & make it with/without Linco
672-make it with/without Linco
685-pull the tylan

HogDoc--
For piglets 21-28 days (which is when I feed them at weaning lindners 600--1 week or 1 bag/whichever comes first) in your opinion, is Denegard going to be good enough? Wish they would keep the CTC because how I use it, at most they would be getting it for only 7 days. But I also thought that Tetracycline derivative feeds were no longer going to be allowed period....vet could not write a script for them.....????
603/606 would not make a difference with what I already do.

612 would be another concern because that is when they get up to sale weight around 40-60 lbs and sure do not want them getting sick just before sale.
Options for treatment at this time would be tylan by medicator with a vet prescription...how many days of treatment?

Feeds with Linco---how many days can the treatment be written for by feed and how many days by medicator? Can I treat with medicator first for treatment and then back up with feed with linco for preventative treatment so they do not relapse? Example: if medicator is 5 days and if feed is 14 days....could I do 5 days medicator and followup with 14 days feed or just 1 of these?

There was quite a bit of talk about Mecadox and think they might be able to squeak through with it at the Pork Convention in Texas.

The other important piece of information. When I asked how much the medicated feed would cost (since I am being told by feed stores that it will cost twice as much as it does now), she had no dollar value to put to it. I also asked if the feed with no antibiotic being added to it anymore (611, 632, 672) would be cheaper since there would no longer be antibiotic cost added to the nonmedicated feed.....she also had no dollar value at this time......hmmmm.
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Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin

Post by HogDoc » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:44 am

HogDoc--
For piglets 21-28 days (which is when I feed them at weaning lindners 600--1 week or 1 bag/whichever comes first) in your opinion, is Denegard going to be good enough? Wish they would keep the CTC because how I use it, at most they would be getting it for only 7 days. But I also thought that Tetracycline derivative feeds were no longer going to be allowed period....vet could not write a script for them.....????
603/606 would not make a difference with what I already do.

612 would be another concern because that is when they get up to sale weight around 40-60 lbs and sure do not want them getting sick just before sale.
Options for treatment at this time would be tylan by medicator with a vet prescription...how many days of treatment?

Feeds with Linco---how many days can the treatment be written for by feed and how many days by medicator? Can I treat with medicator first for treatment and then back up with feed with linco for preventative treatment so they do not relapse? Example: if medicator is 5 days and if feed is 14 days....could I do 5 days medicator and followup with 14 days feed or just 1 of these?
It isn't that tetracyclines aren't going to be available but I can't imagine any veterinarian that has heard Dr. Apley talk on the subject taking the risk to write a VFD. The first meeting I sat in the response was a universal no and it was shortly after that meeting when I wrote what I did upthread.
Some of the corporate guys might not have a choice and will do what they are told and some others may not be aware so your individual practitioner might write the VFD.
I suspect that the feed manufacturer is thinking that they make the feed with Denaguard (no VFD required) and then the producer can concurrently use tetracycline in the water.

Tylan water soluble label says 3 to 10 days if I am remembering correctly but your veterinarian would have the flexibility to write that script extra label for a different duration than it says on the label.

Again from memory so for heavens sake check the label. I think Lincomycin 200 is limited to a 21 day duration and I think there is also a weight restriction on the size of pigs that can get it. I don't remember the restriction if there even is one for lower concentrations like Linco 100 and I think Linco 40 probably goes away.

When it comes to the water solubles you and your veterinarian can make extra label decisions regarding.
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