New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
I was talking with my vet about the new antibiotic rules for 2017. He told me he hadn't studied that much about it yet because he thinks it isn't going to happen. His biggest concern is if it does happen that his malpractice insurance will triple because if he writes a prescription for let's say Pen and then sends a customer off with the bottle he will be held responsible if any thing happens related to that bottle of Pen.
What have you people in the industry heard and what is going to happen with medicated feeds?
Thanks in advance for your input.
What have you people in the industry heard and what is going to happen with medicated feeds?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Don't squat with your spurs on.
Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
Unfortunately, your vet is like many other vets that don't think it will happen. For someone that works with this kind of stuff every day, there is no doubt the VFD regulation for medically important antibiotics in livestock feeds will start Jan 1 2017.
If you are like me, a small swine producer, this is not something to take lightly. a common product that we all use in our baby pig feeds is CTC, Clorotetracycline. This is considered a medically important antibiotic and therefore will need a VFD (Veterinarian Feed Directive) AKA - prescription starting Jan 1, 2017. That's all good if you are a large producer that can take bulk feed, but a little guy like me buys baby pig feed by the bag.
It will be imperative that you have a solid working relationship with your vet and set up a protocol with you, your vet and your feed distributor. You have to remember that under this new regulation the feed store won't be able to sell you a bag of this feed without a VFD on file. Also, it's not like going and getting a bottle of Draxxin from the vet, pig feed has a short shelf life. So you will need to set up a protocol based on the number of litters you will have, when you will need medicated feed and an estimated amount of feed needed.
We farrow sows January, February and March. I don't want to have to get all my baby pig feed in January when I will need feed all the way through April. This is why you need to bring the feed dealer into the mix. Hopefully, they will be willing to do mixed orders of the feeds. However, that protocol has not been determined as of yet.
We will be at the mercy of the feed companies and the vets on this one. I'm hoping they will be willing to work with us!
We need companies like Elanco to come out with new drugs to replace ones like CTC, Tylosin and Linco. If not, it is going to be a pain in the .... getting medicated pig feed.
and for those that like that 100 grams of Tylosin or 200 grams of Linco per ton in your showpig feed, that will be gone starting January 1!
If you are like me, a small swine producer, this is not something to take lightly. a common product that we all use in our baby pig feeds is CTC, Clorotetracycline. This is considered a medically important antibiotic and therefore will need a VFD (Veterinarian Feed Directive) AKA - prescription starting Jan 1, 2017. That's all good if you are a large producer that can take bulk feed, but a little guy like me buys baby pig feed by the bag.
It will be imperative that you have a solid working relationship with your vet and set up a protocol with you, your vet and your feed distributor. You have to remember that under this new regulation the feed store won't be able to sell you a bag of this feed without a VFD on file. Also, it's not like going and getting a bottle of Draxxin from the vet, pig feed has a short shelf life. So you will need to set up a protocol based on the number of litters you will have, when you will need medicated feed and an estimated amount of feed needed.
We farrow sows January, February and March. I don't want to have to get all my baby pig feed in January when I will need feed all the way through April. This is why you need to bring the feed dealer into the mix. Hopefully, they will be willing to do mixed orders of the feeds. However, that protocol has not been determined as of yet.
We will be at the mercy of the feed companies and the vets on this one. I'm hoping they will be willing to work with us!
We need companies like Elanco to come out with new drugs to replace ones like CTC, Tylosin and Linco. If not, it is going to be a pain in the .... getting medicated pig feed.
and for those that like that 100 grams of Tylosin or 200 grams of Linco per ton in your showpig feed, that will be gone starting January 1!
Colby Ferguson
Mary-Okie Farm
cferg615@outlook.com
“Show class, have pride, and display character. If you do, winning takes care of itself.” Coach Paul “Bear” Bryant
Mary-Okie Farm
cferg615@outlook.com
“Show class, have pride, and display character. If you do, winning takes care of itself.” Coach Paul “Bear” Bryant
Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
The first thing is to commend you for being proactive and talking this over with your vet. Everyone really needs to do this because the first important thing when these rules go into effect on Jan 1 is to have a valid Veterinarian Client Patient Relationship (VCPR.)
I'm 100% with Colby these rules will go into effect on Jan 1 2017. When they do you'll need a VFD (basically a prescription) for any medically important antibiotics you want to include in your feed. There are some antibiotics that are not considered medically important in human medicine that will not require a VFD. Those include Denagard, BMD, and Mecadox. That said, FDA is also pushing to take Mecadox off the market.
The other thing that will happen by the first of the year is that all of the feed antibiotics will have specific clinical uses and labels "growth promotion" will be eliminated. So part of the VFD is going to be a specific diagnosis and duration of treatment.
Just to be clear this rule is about feed antibiotics and nothing about the way we prescribe individual injectables like penicillin changes. We have always been responsible for residues when we prescribe extra label antibiotics. There has never been any extra label use of feed antibiotics and these new rules do not allow veterinarians to prescribe extra label feed medications.
One other thing since Colby brought up CTC. From what we have been told about CTC my position and the position of every veterinarian that has seen the CTC data is we are not writing any CTC VFDs for any reason.
I'm 100% with Colby these rules will go into effect on Jan 1 2017. When they do you'll need a VFD (basically a prescription) for any medically important antibiotics you want to include in your feed. There are some antibiotics that are not considered medically important in human medicine that will not require a VFD. Those include Denagard, BMD, and Mecadox. That said, FDA is also pushing to take Mecadox off the market.
The other thing that will happen by the first of the year is that all of the feed antibiotics will have specific clinical uses and labels "growth promotion" will be eliminated. So part of the VFD is going to be a specific diagnosis and duration of treatment.
Just to be clear this rule is about feed antibiotics and nothing about the way we prescribe individual injectables like penicillin changes. We have always been responsible for residues when we prescribe extra label antibiotics. There has never been any extra label use of feed antibiotics and these new rules do not allow veterinarians to prescribe extra label feed medications.
One other thing since Colby brought up CTC. From what we have been told about CTC my position and the position of every veterinarian that has seen the CTC data is we are not writing any CTC VFDs for any reason.
Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
Thomas Jefferson
True North Technologies
www.goinshowin.com
https://www.facebook.com/TrueGlo
Thomas Jefferson
True North Technologies
www.goinshowin.com
https://www.facebook.com/TrueGlo
Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
What are you hearing the feed companies going to do with bagged baby pig feed? If vets aren't going to write VFD's for CTC and pretty much every show pig feed starter uses CTC, will they only go with Denagard and no other medication?HogDoc wrote:The first thing is to commend you for being proactive and talking this over with your vet. Everyone really needs to do this because the first important thing when these rules go into effect on Jan 1 is to have a valid Veterinarian Client Patient Relationship (VCPR.)
I'm 100% with Colby these rules will go into effect on Jan 1 2017. When they do you'll need a VFD (basically a prescription) for any medically important antibiotics you want to include in your feed. There are some antibiotics that are not considered medically important in human medicine that will not require a VFD. Those include Denagard, BMD, and Mecadox. That said, FDA is also pushing to take Mecadox off the market.
The other thing that will happen by the first of the year is that all of the feed antibiotics will have specific clinical uses and labels "growth promotion" will be eliminated. So part of the VFD is going to be a specific diagnosis and duration of treatment.
Just to be clear this rule is about feed antibiotics and nothing about the way we prescribe individual injectables like penicillin changes. We have always been responsible for residues when we prescribe extra label antibiotics. There has never been any extra label use of feed antibiotics and these new rules do not allow veterinarians to prescribe extra label feed medications.
One other thing since Colby brought up CTC. From what we have been told about CTC my position and the position of every veterinarian that has seen the CTC data is we are not writing any CTC VFDs for any reason.
Colby Ferguson
Mary-Okie Farm
cferg615@outlook.com
“Show class, have pride, and display character. If you do, winning takes care of itself.” Coach Paul “Bear” Bryant
Mary-Okie Farm
cferg615@outlook.com
“Show class, have pride, and display character. If you do, winning takes care of itself.” Coach Paul “Bear” Bryant
Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
I don't know what they are planning to do. We use and really appreciate what Denagard/CTC does for our nursery pigs so none of it makes me happy. But I am not going to take the risk of being the guy responsible for loss of export markets if the Chinese decide to look for bound CTC in bone.
A few months ago I would have guessed they'd go with carbadox. But it looks more and more like that is out the window. A whole lot of bagged nursery feed is already manufactured without antibiotics so that it doesn't interfere with oral vaccines so my guess today is they are going that way. Using water to mass medicate as needed is probably more effective and more in line with prudent use.
A few months ago I would have guessed they'd go with carbadox. But it looks more and more like that is out the window. A whole lot of bagged nursery feed is already manufactured without antibiotics so that it doesn't interfere with oral vaccines so my guess today is they are going that way. Using water to mass medicate as needed is probably more effective and more in line with prudent use.
Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
Thomas Jefferson
True North Technologies
www.goinshowin.com
https://www.facebook.com/TrueGlo
Thomas Jefferson
True North Technologies
www.goinshowin.com
https://www.facebook.com/TrueGlo
Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
Thank you both for getting back to us. I'm a little confused I thought all antibiotics would require a prescription to purchase, are you saying that we can still purchase injectable antibiotics over the counter without a prescription in 2017?
Don't squat with your spurs on.
Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
With this new rule, there will be no medically important antibiotics available over-the-counter.
Colby Ferguson
Mary-Okie Farm
cferg615@outlook.com
“Show class, have pride, and display character. If you do, winning takes care of itself.” Coach Paul “Bear” Bryant
Mary-Okie Farm
cferg615@outlook.com
“Show class, have pride, and display character. If you do, winning takes care of itself.” Coach Paul “Bear” Bryant
Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
In my extension role, I am trying to get up to speed on the VFD and get producers ready for CSIA. From what I have been told, it looks like the larger companies will be able to handle it far easier than the small producers and showpig groups. A large company write one VFD for 6 months to cover all the pigs that are fed with the same feed mill even on multiple sites. I really don't know how vets are going to handle it for 4-H kids just yet. I think many of the showpig feed companies might take a hard look at pulling all VFD requiring medications to anything that is designed for use on pigs over 75lbs so they and the kids don't have to deal with VFDs. Can you imagine the paperwork involved with having to save those VFDs for 2 years and needing to store that much on showpigs? If they do pull those meds, the kids need to be aware of that because they were used to being able to haul to shows etc and the meds would cover some of the ailments that went along with that. Without those meds in there, the pigs are more likely to become sick and need water/injectable antibiotics. Yet another reason to become better acquainted with a vet.
I am in the camp that the VFD requirement will go into place January 1, 2017. We can wish that it won't, but it would be foolish to think/plan otherwise. It is the government, they are here to help.
I am in the camp that the VFD requirement will go into place January 1, 2017. We can wish that it won't, but it would be foolish to think/plan otherwise. It is the government, they are here to help.
Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
OK--just asking...
So is it OK just to run antibiotics through the water system at a prescribed amount that would be similar to the amount they would get through their feed routinely as a preventive measure like the feed with antiobiotics in it is doing now?
So is it OK just to run antibiotics through the water system at a prescribed amount that would be similar to the amount they would get through their feed routinely as a preventive measure like the feed with antiobiotics in it is doing now?
"Your present circumstances don't determine where you can go; they merely determine where you start."--I Am Second.
Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
It is my understanding that you will need a rx for water medications as well. You would at least cut out the feed manufacturer by doing water medications.
Kathy Culver
Culver Show Pigs
Culver Show Pigs
Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
Yes it is possible to have a vet supply you with antibiotics for use in water. It will probably be hard to routinely supply it for preventative measures for show pigs. They really want the livestock industry to go away from having antibiotics in livestock "just in case" and want them to be saved for times of need or when a known situation will likely have the animals at a greater risk of being sick. That will be up to your vet to determine if he/she is willing to supply the antibiotic for the different situations. Also the Feds are touchy about calling them prescriptions as that gets into state and federal definitions of what a prescription is and who is allowed to fill them.
Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
My understanding is the use of medically important antibiotics will be phased out over time and will only be available for specific treatment needs. Disease prevention is being heavily criticized by many doctor and human health groups. It will only be a matter of time and this practice will be removed as well.
Again, this is why we need to be looking at alternative options. I do think they are on the way. However, I see 2017 being a tough transition year.
Again, this is why we need to be looking at alternative options. I do think they are on the way. However, I see 2017 being a tough transition year.
Colby Ferguson
Mary-Okie Farm
cferg615@outlook.com
“Show class, have pride, and display character. If you do, winning takes care of itself.” Coach Paul “Bear” Bryant
Mary-Okie Farm
cferg615@outlook.com
“Show class, have pride, and display character. If you do, winning takes care of itself.” Coach Paul “Bear” Bryant
Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
I suspect the use of therapeutic antibiotics will increase but probably not as much as they did in Europe when the EU banned feed antibiotics over ten years ago because we are really only going to lose one option for treating pigs in the short term and the rules to include antibiotics in feed are not that arduous for most producers.
Yes this will be problematic for smaller producers that want to keep doing things the way they always have but if we are actually honest with ourselves we over feed antibiotics in show pigs. As an example there are two feeds in my feed room now for 150 lb + pigs. One contains 200 grams of Lincomycin and the other contains 100 G/T CTC. I can't think of any medical reason I'd feed those antibiotics to that weight pig for extended periods of time but that is the only choice from the manufacturer. In another ironic twist the manufacturer markets the feed containing CTC, which has a 14 day withdrawal period, for the "final push."
Assuming manufacturers and their dealers don't want the hassle of dealing with VFDs not having antibiotics or having something like BMD in show feeds during the grow finish period really will not be that problematic and over time I'll bet we see improved response to treatment when we need to use antibiotics to treat one. For breeders, the nursery is another issue and mass treatment is much more justified than with individual pigs in a show barn so they should seriously look at installing proportioners if they don't already have them. Breeders will also benefit from having some of the water based vaccines available to them if manufacturers pull antibiotics from show pig nursery diets.
Yes this will be problematic for smaller producers that want to keep doing things the way they always have but if we are actually honest with ourselves we over feed antibiotics in show pigs. As an example there are two feeds in my feed room now for 150 lb + pigs. One contains 200 grams of Lincomycin and the other contains 100 G/T CTC. I can't think of any medical reason I'd feed those antibiotics to that weight pig for extended periods of time but that is the only choice from the manufacturer. In another ironic twist the manufacturer markets the feed containing CTC, which has a 14 day withdrawal period, for the "final push."
Assuming manufacturers and their dealers don't want the hassle of dealing with VFDs not having antibiotics or having something like BMD in show feeds during the grow finish period really will not be that problematic and over time I'll bet we see improved response to treatment when we need to use antibiotics to treat one. For breeders, the nursery is another issue and mass treatment is much more justified than with individual pigs in a show barn so they should seriously look at installing proportioners if they don't already have them. Breeders will also benefit from having some of the water based vaccines available to them if manufacturers pull antibiotics from show pig nursery diets.
Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
Thomas Jefferson
True North Technologies
www.goinshowin.com
https://www.facebook.com/TrueGlo
Thomas Jefferson
True North Technologies
www.goinshowin.com
https://www.facebook.com/TrueGlo
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Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
My kids finished their first year of showing for 4H and we're excited to do it again in the Fall. With the new laws going into effect January 1st, what does that mean for those kids showing in a local county fair? Just wondering if it will be worth it to show county in the Spring or if vet fees will take any profit the kids make at auction.
Re: New antibiotic rules Hog Doc, KGB, Darrin
I sure can't speak for all veterinarians but for the most part the cost of a farm visit to establish a VCPR and write the VFD for the duration of the project (VFDs can be written for 6 months) should not add significantly to the cost of a show pig project.
As an aside, when it comes to profit from a show pig project I wonder if you have the same criteria for other extra curricular activities and how they make money at little league baseball or pee wee football?
As an aside, when it comes to profit from a show pig project I wonder if you have the same criteria for other extra curricular activities and how they make money at little league baseball or pee wee football?
Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you.
Thomas Jefferson
True North Technologies
www.goinshowin.com
https://www.facebook.com/TrueGlo
Thomas Jefferson
True North Technologies
www.goinshowin.com
https://www.facebook.com/TrueGlo