Grand barrow at Illinois kicked out

[easy123]

I am amazed that this hasn't been discussed. What are the details?

[midwest77]

From what I have heard from around a couple of bushes, the family had put a cream on the barrow and the cream was so strong that it had gotten into the blood stream. After winning the show, the barrow was tested and the drug showed up and they got the DQ. Guess they tried to fight it and couldn't win. Again, this was what I had heard and have no clue if it is true or not.

[easy123]

Well the barrow has been removed from the official ISF competition results and it did not go through the Sale of Champions. Something has happened.

[swinedad]

The 1st post talked about applying cream on the skin/hide of the pig. This dippety pig syndrome pops up without notice. It could very well be that they had this syndrome occur and heavily applied a benadryl cream or some other cream with a substance that would test. If something like that happened the DQ could have probably been avoided by having the drug form changed at the time of application of the cream/salve with the help of the FAIR vet. But who thinks about doing that??

Swinedad

[HogDoc]

The whole zero tolerance policy coupled with every increasing sensitivity of testing is creating a situation where anyone can get pinged for a violation at about any show.
The case in point is the lamb in Indiana that got DQ'd for Tylenol. I don't know that family well but know who they are. Certainly not rookies to the show ring and knowledgeable livestock people. They know enough to not give Tylenol to a lamb and based on what I've been told by people close to the situation I don't believe they gave the lamb anything. With the sensitivity of the test this could have been something as innocent as recycled urine from a person that took tylenol for a headache.
Families are being put through the ringer and their reputations sullied by a system that doesn't draw any distinction between therapeutic levels and 0.000000001 ppm.

[HogDoc]

I just read Dave Guyer's Facebook post about this pig and if you have not read it you should. I shared it as well. If that pig can test positive because of a topical cream three weeks before the fair literally everyone is at risk.
This really needs to be fixed. Way too many good people are suffering the consequences of a broken zero tolerance policy and a lack of due process.

[HogDoc]

Not to beat a dead horse but I just read a post that the Johnson's posted about the lamb. According to that post the initial urine sample was split into three tubes. Only one of the three was positive and none of the blood samples were positive. If that is accurate it sure seems very likely that the one sample was a false positive.

It is past time to have the conversation to fix this zero tolerance no due process system.

[JWS]

Benedryl? I'm sceptical of the response from Mr. Guyer about a topical application of a anti itch cream causing a residue three weeks later. But then again we are only hearing one side of the story from a family that knows how to play the game.

[buckI]

I heard the generic explanation earlier and assumed there was a hydrocortisone residue from the cream in question. I understand now that it was a Benadryl residue.

I'd be interested in knowing the basics of Benadryl testing, sensitivity, false positives etc.

[HogDoc]

I heard the generic explanation earlier and assumed there was a hydrocortisone residue from the cream in question. I understand now that it was a Benadryl residue.

I'd be interested in knowing the basics of Benadryl testing, sensitivity, false positives etc.

I don't think false positives are a big issue because the test was developed to rule out false positives for other medications where diphenhydramine can cross react for some narcotics. In other words folks that took benedryl occasionally tested positive for other drugs.

From what I understand the more sensitive tests can detect levels as low as 0.001 ppm. Given what we know about how it i.e. excreted in urine therapeutic levels would be represented by somewhere close to 3 ppm in urine.

It is true there is information that none of us have. Like what was the actual test result. But we know that labs can detect levels of medications that are well below any therapeutic level that might enhance performance. In the case of this drug it can be detected at about 1/3000th of a therapeutic dose. If it turns out that the testing showed closer to therapeutic levels then that is a different story.

[buckI]

So, has anyone heard for certain what the barrow tested positive for?

I am hearing some reference to cortisone or cortisol being the reason for expulsion.

[showpigdoc]

My concern on this topic is that the show committees need to somehow match their zero tolerance policies with FDA approved withdrawal times that are used with various medications. Secondly, it seems more important than ever for these shows to differentiate between drugs given to enhance performance vs to treat illness (antibiotics and etc) otherwise we are sending needless negative messages to the consumer!

In regards to the Illinois barrow, I don't believe anyone in the public has seen the paper that describes what level or substance he tested for. If that barrow truly tested out for a topical OTC cream given weeks before the show then many of us are at risk for daily practices we thought were in the best interest of the pig and its well being! Others are skeptical that this could be a story to cover up a more recent treatment to enhance performance...we will never know!

[easy123]

Unless the exhibitor signed a gag order I don't know why she would not release the results of the tests.
Why not prove your innocence?

[mcso1010]

I have a hard time believing that the cream 3 weeks prior caused it to test...I think that sounded good to them and to save face they ran with it... but who knows...

[luxie]

UA tests in these days are very sensitive. Withdrawal dates listed on medication, are really of no use anymore, the tests are so sensitive that they can pickup residues much farther out. Wait until they start pulling hair follicles. A drug with a 5 day withdrawal can be picked up for up to six months in the hair.