KGB - holding ration verification

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craiglibby
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KGB - holding ration verification

Post by craiglibby » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:26 am

I have 2 barrows that need to be rationed. (growing way too fast!) 43 days to fair, max weight of 295. Currently they are both on approximately 7-8 lbs of 16% protein grower per day.

Barrow #1 - weighed today at 265#, so he can gain a max of 0.69 lbs/day. Would like to finish him closer to 275-280. Great muscle and shape, but a little too much cover. Could use some improvement in top shape, but not much. Also needs to lose some jowl fat. Would 3# Fitter 35 and 1/2# Depth Charge total feed, per day, be best to keep him under the limit, but still keep the look he has currently? Or would something else be better? Should anything else be considered as well?

Barrow #2 - weighed today at 220#, so he can gain a max of 1.74 lbs/day. Would like to finish him around 260-265. Good muscle shape, could use a little more fill and tone. Was thinking 2# Powerfill, 1# Fitter 35, in addition to some of the 16% grower, or Champion Drive mixed with the grower, and then finish off with Fitter 52 two weeks out from fair. Would either of these diets work well, or do you recommend something else?

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Re: KGB - holding ration verification

Post by kgb » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:00 am

Yes on #1

#2. I would add in Ultra Full for fill instead of feed.
2 lb Powerfill
1 lb Champion Drive
1 1/2 lb Ultra Full
Dr. Kevin Burgoon
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craiglibby
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Re: KGB - holding ration verification

Post by craiglibby » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:19 pm

Awesome! Thank you so much for all of the help you offer. It's a tremendous thing you do.

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Re: KGB - holding ration verification

Post by craiglibby » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:45 pm

One other question...should this switch be done cold turkey, or should it gradually be added in to the grower they're on, top dressed, etc. Just wondering if they'll get sick from the sudden switch or anything.

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Re: KGB - holding ration verification

Post by kgb » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:15 pm

Mix one day diet of each. Blend them together and feed that mix for 2 days then switch 100% to the new diet.
Dr. Kevin Burgoon
Purina® Honor® Show Chow® Nutritionist
http://www.PurinaMills.com/Show-Feed
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If you have the power to do good for someone...use it. Proverbs 3:27

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Re: KGB - holding ration verification

Post by craiglibby » Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:37 pm

Excellent! Thanks again so much!

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Re: KGB - holding ration verification

Post by craiglibby » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:02 pm

KGB, for barrow #2 in this scenario, what should be the approximate daily weight gain on this diet? (Powerfill, Champion Drive, Ultra Full)

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Re: KGB - holding ration verification

Post by kgb » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:34 am

About 1.5 to 1.6 lb/day
Dr. Kevin Burgoon
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Re: KGB - holding ration verification

Post by craiglibby » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:06 am

Ok. That's about what I had figured. If I wanted to tighten that up to about 1 lb gain/day, would adding another lb of Powerfill, and subtracting a lb of Ultra-full do the trick? So, daily ration -

3 lbs Powerfill
1 lb Champion Drive
1/2 lb Ultra-full

Would that combo still give him the daily nutrients and energy needed, but keep the weight gain down? If not, what would be the proper amounts?

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Re: KGB - holding ration verification

Post by kgb » Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:44 pm

No. That diet will result in fat more than 1 lb/day gain.

Tell me again exactly what you are trying to accomplish (besides the 1 lb per day gain).
Dr. Kevin Burgoon
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If you have the power to do good for someone...use it. Proverbs 3:27

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Re: KGB - holding ration verification

Post by craiglibby » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:12 pm

This pig is the backup to the other one in the original post, who is doing well on the Fitter 35/Depth Charge diet. However, it's going to be very close as to whether he will stay under the weight limit or not, so we want to make sure this second barrow is ready to go if need be.
Some of the supplements we needed weren't readily available around here, and had to be located and shipped in. Due to the current shipping conditions on some things, we weren't able to get him started on everything when we wanted to at the time of my original post, so he continued to gain more than he should.
On this particular barrow, he was weighed this last Tuesday evening, and came in at 250#. At that point, there was then 26 days until fair weigh in, with a max of 295#. I think, with this pig's structure, he would look better at 270-275 than he would at the max of 295. As of today, we have 22 days until weigh in, and I'm sure he's probably around 260 now. I don't know if he'll end up at the 275 mark, using these supplements we have him on now, but we would at least like to keep him under the max weight.

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Re: KGB - holding ration verification

Post by kgb » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:03 am

Got it. So. You want to gain about 1 lb per day.

Remember that 3 lb/day Powerfill produces 1 lb gain per day. When you add other supplements to that 3 lb Powerfill it increases the daily gain above 1 lb per day.

The whole thing about managing weight and keeping the pig fresh is meeting its daily nutrient requirements in as small a daily feeding rate as possible. To prevent muscle loss I figure a minimum of 25 grams lysine per day.

It is actually way more complex than that, but that target of 25 grams per day lysine helps adjusts for those things and simplifies the issue.

So as long as you provide 25 grams per day lysine the pig will not lose muscle. The diet you proposed with Powerfill, Champion Drive, and Ultra Full provides way more than 25 grams lysine.

Besides providing nutrition Champion Drive helps with muscle and Ultra zfull helps with flank. Also Ultra Full is 4% fat and has quite a bit of energy (calories). It is energy that is responsible for growth.

Also, 3 lb Powerfill = 25 grams kysine.

So if you want to limit the pig to 1 lb per day Ultra Full isn’t concentrated enough to use. It’s more like a regular Showpig feed than a supplement (nutrient concentration).

Here are some diets that should result in 1 lb per day:

3 lb Powerfill
1/2 lb Depth Charge (LPS in calories, does not increase gain)

1 lb Powerfill
2 lb Champion Drive
1/2 lb Ultra Full
1/2 lb Depth Charge

2 1/2 lb Fitter 35
8 oz Heavy Weight
1/2 lb Depth Charge
Dr. Kevin Burgoon
Purina® Honor® Show Chow® Nutritionist
http://www.PurinaMills.com/Show-Feed
http://www.facebook.com/HonorShowChow
http://www.twitter.com/HonorShowChow

If you have the power to do good for someone...use it. Proverbs 3:27

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Re: KGB - holding ration verification

Post by craiglibby » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:08 pm

Excellent! Thank you very much for the breakdown on all of that. Extremely helpful!

I guess the only reason I mentioned the Ultra Full is because you suggested using it in the recipe, instead of the grower, in response to the original post. But I also understand that that was when weights and times were allowing for different potential results.

I knew 3# Powerfill would hold at 1# per day gain, but I wasn't sure if that gave enough required nutrients, lysine and energy just by itself, or if something else needed to be added in to provide the lysine/energy requirements, but still hold at 1# per day. I also had a feeling that leaving the Champion Drive in would be too much to hold at 1# per day, but again, just thought I'd seek some clarification. The 3# Powerfill and 1/2# Depth Charge is something like what I was envisioning being appropriate for what we're wanting, but certainly appreciate the additional options to use for similar results.

So, in an effort to understand how to translate from available information, what information can you take from the product tag to determine if a given amount of any certain product will provide that 25 grams of lysine per day that's necessary to prevent muscle loss? ie: the Powerfill tag says it provides 26% protein, 1.85% lysine, 12% crude fat, etc.....Can you use, and if so, how do you use, this information to determine if you'll get 25 grams of lysine per day? (Hopefully that made sense. :D )

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Re: KGB - holding ration verification

Post by kgb » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:51 am

To calculate grams/day lysine you need to know:
1. How much per day of each product is being fed
2. % lysine in that product

For this example; Powerfill (1.85% lysine) fed at 3 lb per day

There are 453.6 grams in 1 lb
So 3 (lb per day Powerfill) X 0.0185 (move decimal 2 places to the left when multiplying or dividing).
Answer = 25.18. (Grams per day lysine)

When using multiple supplements calculate the same way and then add the total for all supplements (and feed):

Example:
Powerfill. 1 lb (1.85% lysine)
Champion Drive. 1 lb (2.0% lysine)
Heavy Weight. 1 lb (0.75% lysine)
Depth Charge. 1/2 lb (0.45% lysine)

Powerfill. 453.6 X 0.0185 = 8.39
Champion Drive 453.6 X 0.02 =. 9.07
Heavy Weight. 453.6 X 0.0075 = 3.4
Depth Charge. 453.6 X 0.0045% lysine = 2.04

Then add (8.39 + 9.07 + 3.4 + 2.04) = 22.9 grams lysine per day
Dr. Kevin Burgoon
Purina® Honor® Show Chow® Nutritionist
http://www.PurinaMills.com/Show-Feed
http://www.facebook.com/HonorShowChow
http://www.twitter.com/HonorShowChow

If you have the power to do good for someone...use it. Proverbs 3:27

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