Good evening everyone. Our show is Mid Feb and with the pig weighing 220lbs (with no weight restrictions) where looking for more mid rib and more pop across the back. The "golden arches" as some might say.
He's got a great structure and surely can hold lot more weight.
We are currently feeding the following in the morning and evening. And he eats every bit of it.
Sunglo G16 - 5.2lbs
Sumo - 8oz
S'more - 6oz
UltraFull - 4oz
It's been suggested that we add Fitter 55 or Sunglo Explode. 4 - 6oz of one of these per day from now to show.
Any suggestions?
Need More Mid Rib and Top
Re: Need More Mid Rib and Top
Fitter 52 is awesome for helping with muscle pop and it doesn't have the attitude changes that can come with using paylean products like Explode.
Keep in mind it does burn fat so if you are happy with your current cover then you should increase the SUMO when you use it. Maybe start with 6 oz a day for the first week and make adjustments after that.
Keep in mind it does burn fat so if you are happy with your current cover then you should increase the SUMO when you use it. Maybe start with 6 oz a day for the first week and make adjustments after that.
Re: Need More Mid Rib and Top
I found the following post by KGB, I would ask him about Paylean versus Fitter 52:
Just my thoughts:
Paylean is a drug, but NOT a steriod or growth hormone.
It is a beta adrenergic agonists, or repartioning agent. That means when you feed Paylean (ractopamine HCl) more of the nutrients are directed toward lean tissue synthesis and away from adipose (fat) deposition.
Paylean also increases growth rate and makes the pig more feed efficient because lean is always more efficient to synthesize and deposit as compared to fat.
Paylean is regulated by the FDA.
Paylean does not directly affect meat quality when fed according to the approval claim. If fed high at doses for too long, yes then it can affect meat quality.
The approved usage states that the minimum weight is 150 lbs.
There is NO maximum weight and NO feed withdrawal required.
It is approved for use for the final 45 - 90 lbs of weight gain.
The maximum legal concentration is 9 grams/ton. Not 9 grams per day, but 9 grams/ton of feed. Obviously, 4.5 grams/ton is legal as well.
Paylean can be tough on feet and legs IF the pigs were unsound to start with, or it is fed for extended periods. I have found that breed and genetics play a role here as well.
When we begin feeding Paylean to a pig that weighs in excess of 200 lbs, we "jump start" their metabolism. They are usually at a point in their growth curve where lean tissue (muscle) synthesis is slowing down, skeletal develop has really slowed down, and fat deposition is increasing. So, we begin feeding Paylean and speed up muscle, decrease fat, and the skeletal development doesn't keep up. So, if the pigs are not sound Paylean exaggerates the unsoundness.
In my opinion only, Paylean should NOT be fed to:
- lame pigs
- structurally unsound pigs
- extremely heavily muscled pigs (except for faster growth)
- stress positive pigs
We can do most everything we need to (muscle) by feeding Paylean at the 9 grams/ton concentration for the final 14-21 days of the feeding period.
We also use Paylean to speed up growth. Remember from above that Paylean increases growth rate. However, this response is temporary. Growth increases and peaks by about day 14 on Paylean, and then subsides to the original levels by day 24-28 or so.
So, when we need alot of growth for young pigs or poor doers, we "pulse" Paylean for 14 days, remove it for 14 days, then pulse back in for 14 days. Theoretically, you can get (and we do) multiple "peak" growth responses when using Paylean. Again, the pigs need to be sound.
Another effect of Paylean is reduction of fat tissue. However, if you provide sufficient energy in the pig's diet you can prevent pigs from getting too hard and heavily muscled that might impair movement.
Another effect of Paylean can be a shift in attitude. It can cause pigs to become, let's say difficult. Not all of them, not even "some" of them, but a few. In this case, if you need muscle or growth, feed it and withdraw Paylean 3-4 days prior to show. It takes (me) about 7 days once we start Paylean to see a visual difference. And, it takes (me) about 7 days once we discontinue Paylean to see a visual difference in the pigs. Paylean is a water soluble compound (like B-vitamins are) that muse be fed everyday.
When you withdraw Paylean, roughly 95% has exited the pig's system in 24 hours, and about 99% in 72 hours (3 days). So, if your pig becomes a knucklehead, withdraw Paylean 3 days prior to show and it's disposition will be greatly improved, and you won't be able to see a visual decline in the amount of muscle.
Sorry about the length...but one last thing. Gilts and reproduction. Paylean does NOT have a permanent effect on reproduction. When gilts are fed Paylean and become heavily muscled and very lean, YES reproduction suffers. Because hormones control reproduction and the estrous cycle. And, the precursor to all hormones is cholesterol. And cholesterol primarily comes from body fat. When gilts become very lean, they have little backfat, and subsequent little cholesterol. And therefore subsequent low levels or unbalanced levels of hormones affecting the estrous cycle. Gilts at this stage either don't cycle, or don't settle.
Take them off Paylean, put them on a good commercial gestation diet (0.65% lysine or so) that is formulated for sows or gilts and fortified properly (biotin, folic acid, etc...). Allow them 3-4 weeks to deposit fat cover and they will begin cycling and then settle. If they don't cycle or settle, they probably weren't going to anyway.
Note: I am NOT advocating feeding Paylean to breeding animals. But, there could be an arguement made by some folks including Elanco that the wording in the claim is: "Not for use in breeding swine". It does not say: "Not for use in swine intended for breeding".
Just another note (and not advocating one way or the other), but there are a lot of replacement gilts pulled out of the finisher AFTER they have been fed Paylean and introduced into the breeding herd.
Hope this helps. Sorry for the novel.
Just my thoughts:
Paylean is a drug, but NOT a steriod or growth hormone.
It is a beta adrenergic agonists, or repartioning agent. That means when you feed Paylean (ractopamine HCl) more of the nutrients are directed toward lean tissue synthesis and away from adipose (fat) deposition.
Paylean also increases growth rate and makes the pig more feed efficient because lean is always more efficient to synthesize and deposit as compared to fat.
Paylean is regulated by the FDA.
Paylean does not directly affect meat quality when fed according to the approval claim. If fed high at doses for too long, yes then it can affect meat quality.
The approved usage states that the minimum weight is 150 lbs.
There is NO maximum weight and NO feed withdrawal required.
It is approved for use for the final 45 - 90 lbs of weight gain.
The maximum legal concentration is 9 grams/ton. Not 9 grams per day, but 9 grams/ton of feed. Obviously, 4.5 grams/ton is legal as well.
Paylean can be tough on feet and legs IF the pigs were unsound to start with, or it is fed for extended periods. I have found that breed and genetics play a role here as well.
When we begin feeding Paylean to a pig that weighs in excess of 200 lbs, we "jump start" their metabolism. They are usually at a point in their growth curve where lean tissue (muscle) synthesis is slowing down, skeletal develop has really slowed down, and fat deposition is increasing. So, we begin feeding Paylean and speed up muscle, decrease fat, and the skeletal development doesn't keep up. So, if the pigs are not sound Paylean exaggerates the unsoundness.
In my opinion only, Paylean should NOT be fed to:
- lame pigs
- structurally unsound pigs
- extremely heavily muscled pigs (except for faster growth)
- stress positive pigs
We can do most everything we need to (muscle) by feeding Paylean at the 9 grams/ton concentration for the final 14-21 days of the feeding period.
We also use Paylean to speed up growth. Remember from above that Paylean increases growth rate. However, this response is temporary. Growth increases and peaks by about day 14 on Paylean, and then subsides to the original levels by day 24-28 or so.
So, when we need alot of growth for young pigs or poor doers, we "pulse" Paylean for 14 days, remove it for 14 days, then pulse back in for 14 days. Theoretically, you can get (and we do) multiple "peak" growth responses when using Paylean. Again, the pigs need to be sound.
Another effect of Paylean is reduction of fat tissue. However, if you provide sufficient energy in the pig's diet you can prevent pigs from getting too hard and heavily muscled that might impair movement.
Another effect of Paylean can be a shift in attitude. It can cause pigs to become, let's say difficult. Not all of them, not even "some" of them, but a few. In this case, if you need muscle or growth, feed it and withdraw Paylean 3-4 days prior to show. It takes (me) about 7 days once we start Paylean to see a visual difference. And, it takes (me) about 7 days once we discontinue Paylean to see a visual difference in the pigs. Paylean is a water soluble compound (like B-vitamins are) that muse be fed everyday.
When you withdraw Paylean, roughly 95% has exited the pig's system in 24 hours, and about 99% in 72 hours (3 days). So, if your pig becomes a knucklehead, withdraw Paylean 3 days prior to show and it's disposition will be greatly improved, and you won't be able to see a visual decline in the amount of muscle.
Sorry about the length...but one last thing. Gilts and reproduction. Paylean does NOT have a permanent effect on reproduction. When gilts are fed Paylean and become heavily muscled and very lean, YES reproduction suffers. Because hormones control reproduction and the estrous cycle. And, the precursor to all hormones is cholesterol. And cholesterol primarily comes from body fat. When gilts become very lean, they have little backfat, and subsequent little cholesterol. And therefore subsequent low levels or unbalanced levels of hormones affecting the estrous cycle. Gilts at this stage either don't cycle, or don't settle.
Take them off Paylean, put them on a good commercial gestation diet (0.65% lysine or so) that is formulated for sows or gilts and fortified properly (biotin, folic acid, etc...). Allow them 3-4 weeks to deposit fat cover and they will begin cycling and then settle. If they don't cycle or settle, they probably weren't going to anyway.
Note: I am NOT advocating feeding Paylean to breeding animals. But, there could be an arguement made by some folks including Elanco that the wording in the claim is: "Not for use in breeding swine". It does not say: "Not for use in swine intended for breeding".
Just another note (and not advocating one way or the other), but there are a lot of replacement gilts pulled out of the finisher AFTER they have been fed Paylean and introduced into the breeding herd.
Hope this helps. Sorry for the novel.
Brian