paylean poison?

Basic nutrition information, show pig, sow, and boar feeding advice
Post Reply
rod
Power User
Power User
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:00 pm

paylean poison?

Post by rod » Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:08 pm

In this weeks Taipei Times (the capital of Taiwan), farmers are protesting US pork imports because of ractopamine residue. Health officials quoted as saying that consuming paylean contaminated pork (especially the liver) causes trembling hands and heart arythmia. Why are we allowing teenagers to mix feed rations for food animals at 2-3 times recommended dosage of paylean? you know this happens. thus jeopardizing our export markets. and why is it legal in the hog showring, and clenbuterol (another beta agonist) is illegal in steers?

Non-Sequitor
Showpig Specialist
Showpig Specialist
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:00 pm
Location: Out There, Way out There
Contact:

Post by Non-Sequitor » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:33 pm

Clenbuterol is a growth-promoting drug in the beta-agonist class of compounds. Its illegal use in show animals is linked to its ability to induce weight gain and a greater proportion of muscle to fat. It is not licensed for any use in the United States, but some countries have approved it for use in animals not used for food, and a few countries have approved it for therapeutic uses in food producing animals. (http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/background/clenbute.htm)

Paylean on the other hand has been approved for use in finishing swine by the FDA. I agree we should be following the label restrictions. If we don't we will see paylean banned as well.

I would read anything in the foreign press with a block of salt, especially if it gives them a chance to bash America.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, you are not entitled to your own facts"
Rep. Roy Blunt Mo.

Please contact your veterinarian before acting upon any animal drug or health advice.

User avatar
Darin
Boar Stud
Boar Stud
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:00 pm
Location: Wisconsin
Contact:

Post by Darin » Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:18 pm

Ractopamine will definitely become more of an issue with regard to the export market. Not all countries share the US assessment of it's safety.

Having said that, go to the site and read further. While Taiwanese producers are calling for a ban on US imports because of this, their own domestically-produced pork was discovered to contain ractopamine as well, at a higher level than was present in the imported product.

Seems to me as though they are breaking their own laws, and trying to find a good excuse to restrict US imports to benefit their own domestic market.

China is another example. Because of our bad experience with contaminated pet food from them, they are also throwing up barriers to US pork and poultry based on ractopamine and other feed ingredients. Kind of a tit-for-tat response.

These issues are driven much more by politics than by any legitimate science. Don't get too alarmed by them. It is agreed though that the show industry needs to follow the rules governing use of feed additives.
A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.
- Ayn Rand

http://www.kuhlowgirls.com
http://www.cerdosllc.com

rod
Power User
Power User
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:00 pm

what??????????????????

Post by rod » Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:19 pm

so.......because it has been used in china and taiwan illegally, that makes it ok to use here? our FDA is superior to china and taiwans food safety agency? do you work for elanco? I'm having trouble understanding your logic. do you think we'll hear from phil seng at the us meat export federation that the asians are just being protectionist? reading historical posts it's clear that paylean (ractopamine) has been used way over label recommendations. what do you tell the businessman buyer at 4H auctions? please buy my barrow, but eat at your own risk?

DerekMyers
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:00 pm

Post by DerekMyers » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:42 pm

Clenbuteral as a muscle builder??????? I would imagine that it would act in other mammals the same way it would in humans. I don't have the time now to look up the terms and I'm drawing a blank but its a human med designed around assisting in breathing/clearing lungs for people that have problems........I can't recall that class of drugs but thats what its for. It causes increased heart rate and metabolic speed up and slightly suppresses appetite. As a college football player and then special forces operator I spent alot of time at gyms with higher end bodybuilders and they used the product they called "clen" for short as a super strong fat burner to get cut up for their shows. Good to your local supermarket magazine stand or Barnes and Noble and look at all the ripped folks on the covers................all taking clen to prep for those cover shots. It certainly isn't a muscle builder at least in humans but it does cook off the fat.

I agree with Darin that I think Paylean with become a larger issue, also the "niche" pork market is starting to get large enough that I think in a couple years it won't be able to be called "niche" anymore.......I went to buy hamburger yesterday at my supermarket. I had 4 choices for extra lean 93/7 % which is what we eat 1. All Organic with a ladies picture on the label she is the producer 2. Naturally raised 100% growth promoter and anibiotic free 3. Pasture raised 100% Natural 100% ground Angus

4. plain old 93/7 ground beef. The 1st 3 choices where all $5.99 per pound and #4 was $4.29 per pound. I waited 5 minutes and watched 6 people bought the 1st 3 choices and 1 person (me) bought the regular meat

Large studies have shown that high percentages of people will gladly pay more for "specialty" meat in pork products too. But in the case of beef at my store if 3/4 choices are "specialty" that has to speak to the demand.

I think pork will follow in the future. If pork had the diversity of producers like the beef industry versus having like a Smithfield dominate the market the change would come sooner. In beef production the individual rancher with 50 cows or 500 cows is still the major producer versus coorporate beef. plus I think the beef producers group is way ahead of pork producers when it comes to ad campaigns.

Derek

Sandy
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 7:00 pm

Post by Sandy » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:00 am

Curious??? Why do you say that "teenagers" are mixing 2-3 times the recommended amount of Paylean? Where do you get your stats?

User avatar
Darin
Boar Stud
Boar Stud
Posts: 2592
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:00 pm
Location: Wisconsin
Contact:

Post by Darin » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:58 am

My point about the Taiwanese feeding it illegally is simply to point out that the same Taiwanese producers who are calling for US pork imports to be banned are using the substance in their own herds, thus nullifying their reasoning for banning our pork. It makes the case that the real reason they want US imports banned is to protect their own markets, and that ractopamine is the excuse.

Worse yet, in their country it is illegal to use, so those producers are breaking the law. Here in the US it is perfectly legal up to 9 grams per ton.

No, I don't work for Elanco. I don't know whether FDA is superior to food safety agencies in other countries, but I am very confident in their historical record and confident that their findings are science-based, not emotionally or politically based.

As for what the 4H kids are doing, that's up to their parents. In the US industry we have what is called PQA (pork quality assurance) programs. Every producer is required to be certified through this program in order to sell their pig to a meat packer. PQA teaches several things including proper drug usage, injection sites, following label directions, withdrawl times, etc.. Kids cannot claim ignorance if they are using paylean improperly as they have been educated through this program. If they are feeding it at illegal levels they are doing it intentionally. It is up to the parents and leaders to police that behavior.

I'm not sure what posts you read that lead you to believe kids are feeding it over the legal limit. The only thing I have seen has been about feeding it to animals intended for breeding. That is illegal as well. Keep in mind that it used to be allowed at 18 grams per ton.
A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.
- Ayn Rand

http://www.kuhlowgirls.com
http://www.cerdosllc.com

Non-Sequitor
Showpig Specialist
Showpig Specialist
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:00 pm
Location: Out There, Way out There
Contact:

Post by Non-Sequitor » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:46 am

Rod,

You are a prime example of the low quality education some in our country unfortunately receive. [b:9c9faf1ed1]NO ONE SAID ONE ILLEGAL ACT MAKES ANOTHER RIGHT![/b:9c9faf1ed1] PERHAPS THE REASON YOU ARE HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING THE LOGIC IS YOU ARE APPARENTLY UNABLE TO READ. AT LEAST YOU CAN'T READ WELL ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAS BEEN SAID.

I am unsure what your beef with the product is, do you work for a competitor of Elanco? Do you have more faith in the Chinese or Taiwanese food safety agencies? Do you think Phil Seng can say the Asians are just being protectionist publicly if he has to negotiate with them?

[b:9c9faf1ed1]EVERYONE RESPONDING TO YOUR POST HAS EXPRESSED THAT FEEDING BEYOND THE ESTABLISHED LIMITS SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED. I WOULD NOT TRUST YOU TO INTERPRET THE HISTORICAL POSTS YOU CITE. NOW RUN BACK TO YOUR P.E.T.A. MEETING AND HAVE SOME TOFU![/b:9c9faf1ed1]
Last edited by Non-Sequitor on Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, you are not entitled to your own facts"
Rep. Roy Blunt Mo.

Please contact your veterinarian before acting upon any animal drug or health advice.

Sandy
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 7:00 pm

Post by Sandy » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:04 am

AMEN!

rod
Power User
Power User
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:00 pm

wrong

Post by rod » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:53 pm

if you'd read my profile, you'd know i'm media. I'm Rod Thorson, host of FARMRADIO on WLPO in LaSalle IL. The highest rated farm broadcast in north central il. You should read more than National hog farmer magazine. In fact, ignorance has caused stockmen to use meat and bone meal in cattle feed. Stilbesterol as a growth promoter, how about aldrin, heptachlor, even multiflora rose was thought to be a positive. All products sold to an unsuspecting agriculture. And how bout this one.......contract pork production will keep your family together. or waste lagoons in a hurricane prone state (north carolina) being sound science! what about all the dead show pigs at fairs because of stress? when I showed hogs at the Illinois state fair in the 70's and 80's, it got to 100 degrees many times with no deaths among twice as many breeding and market hogs. All my questions are fair and deserve honest answers. you ought to get used to it. Soon it won't be farm broadcasters asking questions about ractopamine, it'll be media who really want some answers. knowing the pork industry over the last 15 years, it wouldn't surprise me if you screwed this up.

Non-Sequitor
Showpig Specialist
Showpig Specialist
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:00 pm
Location: Out There, Way out There
Contact:

I know I'm really impressed.

Post by Non-Sequitor » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:11 pm

Well Rod, if as you say you really are a member of the media I would hope you would find a more productive way to present the information you glean from your skimming of newspapers and websites. I am glad you didn't present yourself as a journalist, you would have further degraded that profession. Your comments here have been nothing short of muck raking. I hope you can do some productive research before you go off on some kind of rant on your program.

I won't be listening I have heard quite enough from you.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, you are not entitled to your own facts"
Rep. Roy Blunt Mo.

Please contact your veterinarian before acting upon any animal drug or health advice.

rod
Power User
Power User
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:00 pm

ha

Post by rod » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:30 pm

you should answer some of the questions posed, instead of being a non- sequitor. that is defined by replying in an irrelevant way to something that was just said. I took latin. "Qui' tacit sentire. it means- he who remains silent, gives consent. Question- is it worth forsaking the entire US pork sales to Taiwan , so that a few can have "ripped" barrows with a lot of butt? Wouldn't breeders become better at this if they had to compete without chemistry? Rod

rod
Power User
Power User
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:00 pm

oh

Post by rod » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:34 pm

and by the way, if all the pork producers quit listening to my show it wouldn't change ratings a bit. there are only about 5 per county around here. there used to be 300+. another NPPC success story

User avatar
RingMaster
Power User
Power User
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:00 pm
Location: Sioux Falls, SD

Post by RingMaster » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:06 pm

If all the the hog farmers stopped listening to your show and your ratings wouldn't change, I'm guessing none of the hog farmers listen to you anyway. Stop being such a typical journalist and making the problem sound worse than it really is. There's a few bad apples that abuse the product and give a bad name to the rest. I personally have never used paylean and don't plan on it.
I show purebreds...therefore I am of higher social status than you.

User avatar
bulldog
Showpig Specialist
Showpig Specialist
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:00 pm
Location: PA
Contact:

Post by bulldog » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:27 pm

rod i know many kids that show pigs and have not seen one give 2-3 times the amount of paylean. i even know a lot of kids that dont use it. you also was saying about the stress in pigs but in the NSR you can not have stress in your pigs. this is just one move people are trying to take to stop the pig deaths. i have not seen a pig die at a show in about 5 years. with judges wanting more cover on the hogs today you will see the deaths drop even more. i understand your concern about paylean but i have eaten a lot of hogs that where given paylean without any prob.
Pepple Genetics
814 Lafayette Rd, Newenterprise,PA 16664
Phone:814-766-2970
E-mail: prhgenetics@hotmail.com

Post Reply