Savaging Gilt

Breeding questions, sow talk, semen management, baby pig basics
awalls1177
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:00 pm

Savaging Gilt

Post by awalls1177 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:04 am

Our Poland Gilt farrowed 8 (1 was still born). During her farrowing stage we kept the piglets aways from her introducing only one at a time. She is NOT crated and we have been very active giving her human contact. She is naturally a VERY nervous / skiddish pig.

During the farrowing stage, she allowed the piglets to suck for a short time. We kept the piglets in a container a short distance from her during the rest of the farrowing stage.

During the farrowing stage (after the first 5 were delivered), she attacked tried to attack the piglets.

Once the afterbirth was delivered we tried to introduce the piglets again. She [b:05f9741bbf]agressively[/b:05f9741bbf] attacked the piglets.

We kept the piglets away from her for the last 4 hours and she (on two separate occasions) tried to savage the piglets.

I have searched all the previous posts so I would not duplicate a question .... finding that usually after the farrowing stage she will calm down, but alas, this is [b:05f9741bbf]not [/b:05f9741bbf]the case with this gilt.

Is this a case of where we need to bottle feed the piglets and have the gilt culled? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps I am looking for reinforcement of what I already know needs to happen.

User avatar
PJP
Boar Stud
Boar Stud
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:00 pm
Location: New Mexico

Post by PJP » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:20 am

I have had 2 gilts do this and bred them both back, both times they were fine and went on to raise multiple litters. In both cases I made sure that they farrowed with other sows so I had someplace to tranfer the pigs if it didn't but didn't need to. I recommend pan feeding the piglets don't try to use bottles. There are other posts on that subject.
Don't squat with your spurs on.

awalls1177
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:00 pm

Post by awalls1177 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:20 pm

We've taken the piglets away from her and built a crate until they're a little older. We are pan feeding them (thanks to your advice!)

User avatar
oldobserver
Showpig Specialist
Showpig Specialist
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:00 pm
Location: Central Texas
Contact:

savaging piglets

Post by oldobserver » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:34 am

i feel your pain on this one! it has happened twice to us and each time we shipped the gilt and raised the babies on milf replacer. they all turned out just fine. was just a pain rasing them that way.
there are lots of good posts about how to best raise them and which milk replacer to use.
some of them are just not cut out to be mothers. the first one we had was a poland and she was nervous and mean the entire pregnancy. we ended up raising 4 out of 13 from that litter but she killed 9! the other one was a spot and she waited until they were 10 days old to savage hers. killed 5 of 8.
there has been some research about this subject and the statistics are valuable. i would read all you can before deciding to try her again. unless she is very valuable breeding specimen i would think long and hard about it, i can still see mental images of those babies pigs all torn up. most of them dead but some seriously injured and required euthanasia. not much fun in my book.
good luck with the pan feeding. there are lots of good posts about that subject too on here.
To see the light at the end of the tunnel, sometimes you must stride down there and light the damn thing yourself!

WiNNiNgiSEvErYtHiNg
Power User
Power User
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:00 pm
Location: Louisville, OH
Contact:

Post by WiNNiNgiSEvErYtHiNg » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:13 am

I had an old hamp sow that savaged a few pigs every litter. i always attended the farrowing and kept the pigs in a box and got them out individually to nurse. then after she was all done, i took out the smallest boar pigs, stuck them in the crate and went in the house for awhile. came back after awhile to see what was left. After she got to one or two of them she calmed down, every time.
Visit my website!
www.heppeshowpigs.com

User avatar
Luke30
Boar Stud
Boar Stud
Posts: 925
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:00 pm
Location: N.E. Ok

Post by Luke30 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:44 am

just my opinion here, but why keep something like that around?
Luke Anderson

awalls1177
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:00 pm

Post by awalls1177 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:03 pm

We are not keeping her she is going in the freezer as soon as we can get her to the butcher. Is keeping one of the gilts a good idea or are we just asking for more trouble ?

User avatar
oldobserver
Showpig Specialist
Showpig Specialist
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:00 pm
Location: Central Texas
Contact:

savaging pigs

Post by oldobserver » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:03 pm

i cant imagine why anyone would keep a sow that habitually savages pigs. to each their own i guess.
part of being a livestock producer is selecting animals that have desirable traits and mothering ability ranks at the top of the list in my opinion.
as for keeping a gilt out of a litter that had been savaged, we kept a good spot gilt out of the litter we had raised on milk replacer and raised her up just fine. she bred and farrowed on cue and was an excellent mother.
if you are trying to keep those genetics in your herd then i suggest you keep the best gilt and give it a try.
good luck
To see the light at the end of the tunnel, sometimes you must stride down there and light the damn thing yourself!

awalls1177
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:00 pm

Post by awalls1177 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:35 am

Atom Bomb on a No Doubt x Mr ED gilt we think the genetics are pretty good but we could be wrong any thoughts?
this was our first poland litter

awalls1177
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:00 pm

Salvaging Gilt / Piglets Orphaned

Post by awalls1177 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:16 pm

Five Days Old -- This may get a little long-winded, but if someone out there can learn from my experience, then this update will not be for naught.

I must say, I am truly enjoying having these piglets in the house -- it's hard work and it consumes [b:6579b46cef]alot[/b:6579b46cef] of time (and countless research on showpig.com), but knowing we are giving these piglets the best chance of survival they can have is amazing. If I were to have sent them back out with the mamma knowing what could have happened to them, I couldn't have lived with myself. (It's really ironic knowing the fate that lies before some of them.)

Two of them have had some infection in the lower extremities -- I'm sure this is due to the lack of colostrum -- (back legs stopped walking / working) but a few days of 1 CC of penicillian and they are doing beautifully. I tried to find Linco, but alas, I had no luck at TSC... so I had to go with what I on hand. (We haven't found a livestock vet yet here in Pendleton, IN that is willing to help out or doesn't charge an arm and a leg) I should have had LPD on hand during the delivery, but I, as most newbies do, expected the best... I should have been prepared for the worst. I will most definately contact Dr. Hendrickson for his premixed solution before our next delivery.

I'm feeding them a home made milk replacer of whole milk, half & half, eggs, dark corn syrup, and yogurt; and the scours are completely under control. (expensive and time consuming, but it is working) --Please PM me for the recipe / instructions; you just can't mix it all together and cook it... it won't work!) One of them does has a sensitive stomach (throwing up the mixture / scours), so I'm giving him a store bought organic goat's milk now and he's doing great!

A little immodian was needed during the 2nd day for all of them; but now they're pooping like normal! I never thought I'd be so happy about normal poop! A few still have "thick milky poop", but it's not runny. Maybe a little more immodiam for them tomorrow.

I am pan-feeding the majority of them (due to the suggestions of the forum.) The goat's milk baby and my one special little girl prefers the bottle for now. Either way, all of them are showing nice signs of ribs and round belly's. They are playful when satisfied and very vocal when they're ready to eat. On that note, I am able to feed them at 6:00 a.m. / 3:00 p.m. / "snack" 6:00 p.m. / and 11:00 p.m.... with fresh water in between.... so if you work outside the house, you CAN do this, it just takes some discipline on your part. (set the alarm 45 minutes early so you can feed and disinfect the housing - and make the kids help you! --It will teach them much more then you even expect! My 11 year old son feeds them at 3:00 when he comes home from school) YES, you will be tired.

I agree, I couldn't imagine keeping a "salvaging" animal around. As much as I loved this gilt, that just isn't natural. We're here to make the best babies we can, and teach the kids how to handle each situation - be prepared! Shipping her off is going to be very hard, but it is a decision our kids must learn how to handle if they are going to grow up to be responsible breeders in the future.

If any of you out there have any more advice to help me with raising these little piglets, I'd love to hear from you! [b:6579b46cef]Oldobserver[/b:6579b46cef], keep the tips/advice a-comin'! Since I'm on a low-budget, I need all the home-made remedies I can find and I truly value your experience and wisdom! Honestly, with this being my first litter "all alone" I couldn't have done it without the advice from the forum.

I'm not counting the chicken's before they hatch and tomorrow may bring a sad story, but I'm fighting this battle for healthy piglets and I will soak up all the information I can gain. My son and daughter have dreams of raising their own farm one day and I'm here to help them learn.

On Sunday, Day 7, I'm going to attempt the castration. This is my first attempt alone, so again, any advice would be greatly appreciated!

SpotShowDad
Showpig Specialist
Showpig Specialist
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:00 pm
Location: SE IL

Post by SpotShowDad » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:00 am

Two or three things come to mind as I read your post. First of all, Congratulations on your effort.

First thing, I remember when I was a kid and tried to raise a couple of orphan pigs we would put slices of bread in the pans and cover them with milk and the pigs would suck the milk out of the bread. They really took to it and had no problem getting them to consume the milk. Just a thought if you have trouble getting some to eat like you want.

Secondly I would start introducing pellets right away. You can start by mixing a "gruel", soaking your pellets in the milk replacer and feeding this mixture instead of straight milk and then eventually offer dry pellets. My suggestion would be to get your hands on some Frost Coat pellets from Moormans. These are about the best early start pellet I have ever used. They are expensive but hey its just money right? I don't know where to tell you to find them around Pendleton for sure but I would bet you could call Key and Son at Alexandria and get them. (Graduated from PHHS, grew up east of there LOL)

Lastly I would not worry with the casteration thing right now. I would be extremely concerned about the stress and the potential of infection. As you said these little guys aren't gonna have the immune system of a normal pig. If you want shoot me a pm and we can talk about contacts to get these pigs cut later on.

Good Luck

Mark
"We cannot always build the future for our youth, but we can build our youth for the future." Franklin D Roosevelt

awalls1177
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:00 pm

Post by awalls1177 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:30 am

SpotShowDad -- I was wondering about starting them off on pellets, I'll see if I can find some. I'm close to Alexandria, so that's not a problem. I will definately try the bread soak. They all love to eat, that's for sure. I actually can't believe how they've gained since birth.

I think your definately right, I'll wait to castrate. They are doing so well (knock on wood) and there's no since in stressing them out right now. When they get a little stronger, I'll send you a PM and we'll talk about finding someone to teach me. I need to know how and I don't want someone to just do it for me; you get that from some people some times.

Thanks for the advice, I'll keep you posted!

User avatar
Ericka
Boar Stud
Boar Stud
Posts: 774
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:00 pm
Location: Coarsegold, CA

Post by Ericka » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:07 pm

Doesn't your local 4-H or FFA have a goat project? That is how I normally get mine. I have had to buy it in the grocery store and it will make you go broke. Contact the 4-H office maybe for some info on leaders.

awalls1177
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:00 pm

Post by awalls1177 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:07 am

Hey everyone!
Just wanted to let you know the babies are doing great! We used the Long Acting Pen/Linc/Dex mixture from Dr. Hendrickson and the strep went away!

The remaining babies are healthy, happy, and fat! What a ride this was, but it was truly an experience to use for the future! Lesson learned, always be prepared. When you think you're ready to go at this alone... read some more!

P.S. -- we sold the momma to a breader up north who has more experience with this sort of thing.....

Thank you all, for your wonderful advice. Don't think they could've made it without you!

User avatar
Ericka
Boar Stud
Boar Stud
Posts: 774
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:00 pm
Location: Coarsegold, CA

Post by Ericka » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:32 am

I bet she will be fine the 2nd time around. My friend had a gilt that wanted to kill everything in sight. It took us 2 days to get the babies in with her. He next litter she was a great mom even through a horrible delivery.

Post Reply
cron