I know of the three out there that are clones to the Grand barrow at Houston is 2014. American Bad Boy, C'mon, and Bad Man. My question is that if they are all clones should they produce pigs that look the same since they are all genetically identical? I know the price is different on all three. Just wondering they look pretty impressive. Thanks!

Where is our resident geneticist when we need him? Calling Mote! Mote! Come in Mote!

If we can get his attention he'll tell you all you want to know about clones.

I have been on the road traveling and have to do a PQA+ Adviser training session in the morning. Outside a few spontaneous mutations, the DNA of the boars will be the same. However, there is this fun little thing called epigenetics that will cause different phenotypes even with the same genotype. The term epigenetics refers to heritable changes in gene expression (active versus inactive genes) that does not involve changes to the underlying DNA sequence; a change in phenotype without a change in genotype. Fun huh? Also why identical twins and clones don't have to look alike even with the same genetic code. The show cattle group saw this big difference in progeny out of some of the famous bull clones .

So there is no sure outcome...just put the pedal to the metal and see which boar is turning out competitive show pig quality. In other words, it could be the cheapest, cheap, or most expensive semen. BUT not able to determine who can/will do what because of the epigenetics scenario. Does it change from year to year within the same boar secondary to environmental, health influence, etc?

There is no sure bet as to which one will produce the desired phenotypes but they will be more alike than using even full sibs. Most of the epigenetic effect is set up while they are in utero. There might be some events that occur to animals later in life, but most are programmed during fetal development.

You also have to remember that the boar is only supplying 1/2 the genetics to the progeny. And what gene expressions he supplies won't always be the same.

Expecting these boars to generate pigs that looked like the Houston Champion is like asking a sire to produce hogs that look just like him. And we know that doesn't happen!

I would say to try one of them, but I wouldn't put it in a first litter gilt! (cost versus potential litter size/disaster)

C'Mon is the one I would try if I were going to try one of them.

Mary-Okie wrote:Expecting these boars to generate pigs that looked like the Houston Champion is like asking a sire to produce hogs that look just like him. And we know that doesn't happen!

I think the original post was referring to each of the clones siring similar offspring, not that the offspring would all look exactly like the 2014 barrow. In other words, that it wouldn't matter which clone you use as they will all sire "the same". American Bad Boy has a head start. I guess we'll find out if the others can do as well.

I will say this much, I saw Ottie's clone in the Belton parking lot and hes a damn good one and should be used if anyone is considering using a clone. I have never in my life seen a steer legged boar take that kind of a stride on asphalt before. Mark and Russell were ecstatic about him!!

I have seen Bad Man as well and he is flat impressive. Try him...

Isnt Bad Man the cheapest per dose?

Yes, here are the prices per dose:

Bad Man:
REGULAR PRICING: $250/DOSE
OVERRUN: $125/DOSE

C'mon:
Summer Semen Price: $300/Dose
Overrun Price: $200/Dose

American Bad Boy:
$500/dose

Im pretty sure C'mon was $750/dose at one time.

I for one refuse to use a clone of any species. I don't believe in it, goes against mother nature. That being said American Bad Boy has thrown some very nice hogs and if I were to use one right now it would be him. I have also been told that there are actually more sibs to them out there

luxie wrote:I for one refuse to use a clone of any species. I don't believe in it, goes against mother nature. That being said American Bad Boy has thrown some very nice hogs and if I were to use one right now it would be him. I have also been told that there are actually more sibs to them out there

I agree with you about it going against mother nature but when a barrow was that good, you gotta understand where Grady and the boar studs are coming from. At first I had many doubts but its proven to be effective. If you want to be on top you gotta stick with where the industry is going and using clones might have to be part of that. Grady had a barn full of clones but I believe the three out there are the only ones he put out there for studs.

Sorry, I don't see how Show Pig Industry and Mother Nature are in the same sentence. Cloning may be the extreme for now, but more technology will be on the way.