ProBios changed color

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Chorizo
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ProBios changed color

Post by Chorizo » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:20 pm

I've been using ProBios dispersible powder as a top dressing for a few weeks now. My daughter's ag teacher gave us an opened partial container of it. Another parent saw it and told me that it is not supposed to be dark colored like it is. He told me that his is light colored. I'm not sure, but it may have already been dark colored when I got it.

Does the fact that it has turned dark mean that it's gone bad? Possibly because it's been exposed to heat?

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Post by Chorizo » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:16 am

I guess I'll answer my own question. I bought a new container of ProBios yesterday at the feed store and when I opened it I saw that it is supposed to be a fine white powder. The one I had been using was a brown color and had hardened and/or clumped. I'm pretty sure that the brown one has gone bad. Especially since ProBios contains live micro-organisms. I suspect that the container that was given to me was left in a hot car which most likely killed the live micro-organisms which then caused it to change color.

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Post by kgb » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:42 am

Just my two cents: Probios is a live culture. It is best used to restore or maintain proper rumen flora, and help maintain proper rumen function.

Pigs don't have rumens. They do very little, but some fermentative digestive in the hindgut (large intestine). The problem is there is no active transport in the large intestine to absorb the nutrients and get them across membranes. So, for the most part they pass out of the pig through the feces.

You can buy this and feed it if you like, but as far as doing the pig anygood at all, I doubt it seriously. For one thing, the live culture is pretty much immediately killed as it hits the abomassum due to the very low pH. That doesn't happen in ruminants.

Just my two cents.
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Post by Chorizo » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:52 am

That's interesting. All I know is that my daughter's Ag teacher recommended it. Good thing it's not as expensive as most supplements. Maybe I'll save it for my daughter's steer she's getting for next year.

Thanks for the info KGB.

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Post by kgb » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:27 pm

It will work well on your steer.
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Post by Chorizo » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:03 pm

KGB, I e-mailed your comments to Pro-Bios to see if they were in agreement with what you had to say about their product and here is their response:

The writer is correct that the Probios probiotics are live cultures and while acidic conditions found in the stomach of animals tend to kill bacteria, it should be pointed out that Probios probiotics have been extensive researched as to their efficacy in various animal species. This published research includes both ruminants, such as cattle, and non-ruminants including pigs. For example, it has been shown that Probios does provide improvements in performance specifically for pigs (Effects of antibiotics and probiotics on suckling pig and weaned pig performance. Intern. Jr. Appl. Res. Vet. Med. 3: 303-308, 2005). As the research is showing, that despite stomach acid, the probiotics found in Probios are surviving to be efficacious, even in pigs. As such, using probiotics in both ruminants and non-ruminants has gained tremendous support, as evidenced by the numerous products available on the market. While the writer does not state this specifically, one should use probiotics that are backed by published research, such as what Probios probiotics have.

Dr. Dan DuBourdieu

What do you think?

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Post by kgb » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:03 pm

What I think is I stand by my comments. He indicated the support for these products is "as evidenced by the numerous products available on the market. "

I would say big deal. There is alot of stuff sold everyday that may or may not do much at all. Just because there are products on the market means little.

And the only thing as far the efficacy of the product was that some survived the low ph (acidic) conditions of the pig's stomach. I did not see any data or information saying it improved the growth performance of the pig, or the visual appearance of the pig.

I'm not sure what you want here, but like I said I stand by my words. If they want to get into a p match. Give them my e-mail address. But, it's not worth debating on this forum. At least not to me.

If you want to use it, do so. But, after you do, honestly evaluate if that alone made a difference in the appearance of the pig. If you're feeding other things along with it, then it will be very difficult to say that product was responsible for improving your pig.

There are a host of other supplements out there that actually do accomplish much when fed to a pig.
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Post by hampy622 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:13 pm

If you want to waste your money on that stuff chorizo buy some yogurt and give them that. If I have a pig that is sick I give them a cup or so of that. The pigs usually get better but I dont know if the yogurt had much if anything to do with it. I would believe anything KGB says over a salesman trying to keep you buying their probios. Why would he say they do anything. Email him back and ask him to send you data saying it actually works

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Post by Chorizo » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:40 pm

KGB, I'm not trying to stir up any trouble here. I know that you are extremely knowledgable when it comes to swine nutrition and I have no reason to doubt what you posted about ProBios. I realize that the only reason you did so in the first place was to let me know that it probably wasn't doing any good to give it to a pig.

The only reason I sent the ProBios people your comments in the first place was because I read something on their website which claimed that it did have positive effects on pigs and I wanted some clarification. Here is what I read:

"The Most Researched DFM

More than 95 individual studies have been performed at universities and under practical field conditions throughout the United States and the world. These trials, involving more than 30,000 animals, have shown the positive effects of Probios? Microbial Products in a variety of animal species, including dairy, beef, swine, and sheep.

In addition to the trials listed below, other studies have shown the positive influences of Probios? Microbial Products in starter, grower, and finisher pigs, chickens, turkeys, and horses."

See why I was confused?

Hampy, it's not a matter of my wasting my money because I had already purchased the ProBios, on my daughter's Ag teacher's advice, before KGB informed me of the fact that it was pretty much ineffective on swine. Anyway, I quit adding it to our pig's food shortly after KGB posted his comments.

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Post by hampy622 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:42 pm

ask them for the data. What are these "positive" effects. Pretty objective in my opinion. Did they monitor feed intake and weight gain? Did they have controls and how did they conduct this research. I smell BS.

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Post by kgb » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:18 am

I did not mean to get stirred up either. Please forgive my tone. Probios is useful in ruminants and hind gut fermenters in which fermentative digestion is primary.

In the pig, what little fermentation occurs happens in the large intestine or large colon. In the small intestine their active transport to propel if you will nutrients across membranes etc... In the large colon this does not happen, so the only very small substances are absorbed.

For example, if Probios worked well in pigs we would have no need to fortify diets with B vitamins. B vitamins are one of the co-products of fermentative digestion. We routinely, more than that, every time we fortify diet with added B vitamins because the pig cannot supply them for itself. Cattle, sheep, goats, can, even horses and rabbits. Pigs cannot.

I'm not telling you not to feed it. Everyone has the right to feed whatever they want to feed. However, because we usually have very limited space in pig diets when we are limiting growth, we need to have something that by all means enhances the physical appearance of the pig in every available space in the pig's diet.
Dr. Kevin Burgoon
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Post by coalminer » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:44 pm

just out of curiosity i done a search of pig/probiotics and saw several studies that seem to support the use of probiotics. there is even an article on the pigsite.

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Re: ProBios changed color

Post by Bethkeel » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:32 am

Hey guys!! I see this is an old thread but I have a question! I’m new to the show pig thing! I, too, purchased pro_bios on the advice of the breeder & now it seems my babies have diahrrea!!!!! What am I doing???? Am I giving too much? My opinion is if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. My babies are gaining at a rate of 1 1/2 to 2 pounds a day without it! I stopped feeding it because they didn’t have it before!

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