watjie $380,000 blue xbred boar!!

[Pen_1]

[quote="mcso1010"]hey but if all the boars start costing that much money people who bred 10-20 or less will be out of business because I cant afford to pay 30K to breed15 sows......quote]

Supply and demand. Look at all the new boar studs that have popped up the last couple of years. Look at all the incentives the big studs are now giving to keep customers ie free shipping, bonus bucks and early over run. For breeders the more studs that keep opening up is only going to drive the cost of semen down. Sure there will be record selling boars that studs will acquire but only a small % of breeders can justify to use those boars. In the showpig business you need to be wise about spending with semen costs....not every sow deserves $200 semen. Not every sow lines up best with $200 semen....ever notice in this business the new unproved boar is almost ALWAYS cheaper the following year?? My $0.02.

[Mary-Okie]

Totally agree! We AI'ed 14 females to 12 different boars this fall and never spent more than$150/dose. Bought every dose on overrun. We used 8 proven boars and 4 new boars. Utilized SGI, Moyer, Hi Point, the Stud, Cain, LVS, Showtime, Fischer, and 2 small breeders (Mitchell Showpigs and Ebersole Showpigs) for our semen.

So this nonsense of not being able to afford to AI your females is just crying "the sky is falling". There are way too many breeders, boar studs and really good genetics across the country for the semen prices to get out of hand.

Go look at the sale summary, take out the WD boar and Olsen's 55K York boar and the rest of the sale was average at best. The York sale was pretty bad! So hold off on the end of the Showpig breeding industry. There are more than enough good boars to go around. And when boars of the caliber of WD's boar get used on some of the best sows in the country, you know there will be dozens of sons to use in late fall 2014 and spring 2015!

[B]

Has every high dollar boar bred on? What did True Masterpiece ever do? Grimm bred a BUNCH that sold for much less that still live on today.

I agree with prior poster(s) that say this is a good thing, but for a different reason. The older, proven boars now become a little less popular, i.e. cheaper. Afterall, they are old news now.

This isn't meant to take anything away from the firms involved. They are playing the odds that they can make money on this deal, and because of the businesses they have built they probably will. But for people to make a statement that this is the end of the showpig business as we know it is laughable. Go back in history and look at prices boars (albeit purebreds) brought in the twenties. Adjusted for inflation, 380k doesn't touch some of those. The breeders that didn't buy those boars still found a way to survive.

The cattle guys have it right. The price goes up AFTER the sire is proven. There are plenty of good/great breeders that WON'T use 380 Blue that will still win and be in business.

The older I get the easier it is to walk and not run. For those that are beside themselves that they can't use this boar, channel your emotions towards studying the proven boars out there that have greater odds of helping you. You'll be farther ahead in the long run.

[HF]

Congratulations to all involved with this boar. I agree with many post this creates a buzz in the industry which is good. People want that excitement of thinking about what they have to do to possibly create the next "Sky's the Limit". For all the complaining about how much semen will be, who cares? What created that 380K boar wasn't high dollar semen at the time(may become that now) it was affordable. It was a good breeding program/decision by WD swine. There's no reason many others can't do the same with there own program it just takes dedication and time studying pedigree's and consistent crosses knowing the difference between phenotypical crosses and genotypical crosses.Understanding and evaluating what your sow needs and crossing her to the proper boar or the boar that gives the best odds of accomplishing what you want.
I'll probably get blasted for this, but the problem is the same thing that"s wrong with America today, Too Many People Want The Easy Solution to everything their not willing to work for what they want. They want it handed to them and all thing made equal. Well there not, some people are lucky, some people are born into it, and some people flat out have to work their a## off to get what they want. Don't complain because others are successful learn from their accomplishments and earn rewards yourself! Appreciate what others do and complement them on it don't bash them. Life ain't fare don't expect to be handed success.
Now for my one concern in these post that no one is mentioning is the fact that breeders are running up their pigs on the online sales!!! I'll put it simple, when someone buys a pig, horse, etc. from me I quote a price I'm willing to take, my bottom dollar and I personally believe that should be the opening bid breeders place on the sales. I had hoped the online sales were the same honesty. I suspected this was going on, on various sales but hoped it wasn't for the sake of GOODNESS and HONESTY. I had already been skeptical about online sales as you are going by the breeders word if you are unable the physically view these pigs and their correctness, and soundness. I've seen a various pigs from reputable breeders that were exactly as described upon arrival or better, but I've also seen $50 sale barn pigs from supposed reputable breeders too. And heaven forbid someone post the names of these supposed reputable breeders online for the public to be made aware of. Sorry so long of a post off my soap box I go.

[samhamp]

It is great for the large farms who can afford these boars and the semen. I personally am still old fashioned and take my boys to a small breeders farm and pick out affordable show pigs. I know that people in Texas spend mega bucks for pigs but it is so great when these small breeders and their affordable show pigs beat these mega beasts.

[Darin]

The older I get the easier it is to walk and not run. For those that are beside themselves that they can't use this boar, channel your emotions towards studying the proven boars out there that have greater odds of helping you. You'll be farther ahead in the long run.

Well said B.

[easy123]

Hey Darin,

The 'fairy tale' comment isn't probably right, fantasy world is more accurate.
As long as we all remember that the show pig industry is simply a HOBBY everything is good.

There are what, maybe 50 people that influence the direction we go.
20-30 breeders, most who are doing a lot of judging and 20-30 academic backgrounded judges.
This is totally a style show.
There is no consideration for performance or production.
Gilts win shows with 5 on a side because they have "too much good not to use'.
Producers farrow gilts at 15-18 months of age because they are structurally unable to deliver pigs at the age of 12 months. Even with the delayed farrowings assistance is often needed.
Showrings are set up with 4-6-inches of shavings to hide the feet and pastern issues.
Packers don't want to and in some cases WON'T buy showpigs. Why is that?
Are these hogs really any better than 5,10,20 years ago?
Why are we all over the newest boars?
A REAL breeder wouldn't do any more than sample a sire until he is proven.
And a sire isn't proven until his daughters prove him.
As I said earlier as long as we remember this is strictly a hobby then all is well.
I'm just a Dad whose kids like pigs. We've had good success, probably spent more than we should have and don't regret a minute or dollar of it.

[douglas]

I personally don't understand the problem with people running their pigs up. If I'm buying a pig I have my limit on what I'll spend and that doesn't matter who the other bidder is

[Darin]

Easy,

I agree with your analysis of showring hogs. They are bred for looks and have little value to the commercial world for the most part. In the end though, they do end up in the food chain for better or worse. You're right that the "end-user" of these genetics is hobby-based. The ultimate market for these hogs is youth market-hog shows where few expect to make a profit from their project. However above that end-user market there are a lot of breeders that actually make their living at this, or at least try to. For families like the Moyers, Shaffers, Olsens, Shipleys, etc., etc., each purchase is a serious business decision that can have an impact on their livelihood.

It's a sustainable business as long as that youth hog-show market remains intact. If something rattles that, the showpig industry collapses. There is no use for showpig genetics if there are no more hog shows. We're only ever one nasty disease outbreak away from having hog shows shut down. That is probably the biggest risk in having a lot of money sunk into these boars.

[PowerCoyote]

I can weigh in on the idea of breeders running up their pigs on this boar, since I was one of the ones who bid on him. We quit him at either $1001 or $1201, I can't remember which. We were excited about the Big Sky mother of the boar.
My expectations on breeding hogs (baby boars, gilts) is that the breeder will have a value for use within his herd. The thing I don't want is to find out, after I buy a boar pig, is that the breeder held two better ones back. WD put their best in their online sale, and had a value 63-93 was worth to them that was higher than he was worth to me.
This fall, we bought one of the two good boar pigs in the first Frontline sale. I am quite sure (though I have not asked) that they hit him a couple times. Ultimately, we got him bought, and Frontline was not the runner-up either. If we ever raise a truly elite boar pig, we will floor him above $300 as well.

[Tip10]

Sorry but I don't understand how people are ok with the idea of the sellers running up their bids. If you've got a minimum price you have to have for a pig or whatever it may be, set it in at that amount and let the actual buyers take it from there. There's no questions that way

[BigWig]

Exactly what is the difference between a breeder and just a random person bidding on the pig??? You set the value of that pig in your own mind/budget and you bid accordingly! If someone values the animal more than you and you get outbid then so be it, that's the purpose of an auction. It happens at every live auction that NSR puts on too. I am totally perplexed on why someone would be offended by a breeder protecting an animal in a live auction of all things!

[NexGen]

Exactly what is the difference between a breeder and just a random person bidding on the pig??? You set the value of that pig in your own mind/budget and you bid accordingly! If someone values the animal more than you and you get outbid then so be it, that's the purpose of an auction. It happens at every live auction that NSR puts on too. I am totally perplexed on why someone would be offended by a breeder protecting an animal in a live auction of all things!

I completely agree. Quality deserves $$$ and if the bids do not come in high enough, you can buy your own consignment back but still have to pay the commission fee to auction company. Not sure if people realize that.

[torf]

It is not exclusive to online auctions. Look at the NSR or CPS sales, breeders buy their pigs back. Whether they are looking for more money or they want to keep that animal it's up to them.

[easy123]

It's my understanding that this was an online auction.
The minimum bid was posted, which I would assume means that the highest bid above that
would own the pig.
The minimum was set by the seller which was apparently what he was willing to let the pig go for.
He obviously changed his mind or felt that the bidder could be pushed.
Could be either scenario.
There is a serous credibility question here of both the seller and auction company.

I know it happens, I know that sellers have buddies protect things for them.
At least there is some semblance of correctness when it is done that way.

Bottom line is this:
W-D has admittedly bid on their own hogs after they have exceeded their published minimum selling price.
I think that this practice undermines the integrity of publishing a floor price.
I'd like to have the auctioneer weigh in on this.

On another note, ask someone who has consigned an item with Ritchie Bros and then bid on that item what the outcome is.