paylean poison?

[Hog_Whisperer]

[b:543bdc140b] Rod wrote[/b:543bdc140b] "Why are we allowing teenagers to mix feed rations for food animals at 2-3 times recommended dosage of paylean?"


[b:543bdc140b]Darin wrote[/b:543bdc140b] "As for what the 4H kids are doing, that's up to their parents. In the US industry we have what is called PQA (pork quality assurance) programs. Every producer is required to be certified through this program in order to sell their pig to a meat packer. PQA teaches several things including proper drug usage, injection sites, following label directions, withdrawl times, etc.. Kids cannot claim ignorance if they are using paylean improperly as they have been educated through this program. If they are feeding it at illegal levels they are doing it intentionally. It is up to the parents and leaders to police that behavior.

I'm not sure what posts you read that lead you to believe kids are feeding it over the legal limit. The only thing I have seen has been about feeding it to animals intended for breeding. That is illegal as well. Keep in mind that it used to be allowed at 18 grams per ton."

**PQA link added to post** (sorry if this upsets you Darin)


[b:543bdc140b]Bulldog wrote[/b:543bdc140b] "rod i know many kids that show pigs and have not seen one give 2-3 times the amount of paylean. i even know a lot of kids that dont use it. you also was saying about the stress in pigs but in the NSR you can not have stress in your pigs. this is just one move people are trying to take to stop the pig deaths. i have not seen a pig die at a show in about 5 years. with judges wanting more cover on the hogs today you will see the deaths drop even more. i understand your concern about paylean but i have eaten a lot of hogs that where given paylean without any prob."

[b:543bdc140b]Harndog wrote[/b:543bdc140b] "As for those that have been guilty of overusing this product most of their pigs could not make it to market anyhow. Paylean breaks them down. The muscle grows but the joints get dry due to the added moisture needed in the muscle for it to grow/pop. Used right and this does not happen. As stated above 18 grams was the legal amount it has been dropped to 9 grams and it is approved by the FDA enough said. "
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As you can plainly see your "basic question" was dealt with several times so please quit saying it wasn't.

As you can see by the answers you were given. Todays youth are educated by the pork industry on proper usage of paylean. When cheaters in the show industry choose to ignore the guidelines put forth by our industry it is up to the individuals parents, Leaders and extension agents to rectify the situation on an individual basis. To imply that this is an industy wide problem is off base and improperly presented. The number of showpig exhibitors that do cheat in no way influences the commercial pork industry of the United states as they are two completely seperate entities that have goals different from each other. In todays showpig industry we are going back to a more realistic final product (thank God) and in the future you will see less and less use of Paylean simply because it is not needed for the product the showpigs industry is going for.

Here's my 2 cents worth on that question.
The small amount of people who cheat by overusing paylean is not going to have an effect on the US export market. Those animals are sold through local youth fair auctions to private individuals and companies and are NOT exported to any foriegn country for public consumption. To insinuate that this small group of animals will have an effect on the export market is asnine.

As far as paylean affecting meat quality goes, Here's a Fact,complete with link to back it up.
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From a purdue university study.
http://www.ansc.purdue.edu/swine/porkpa ... ylean.html

"Pigs fed Paylean show large advantages in terms of lean growth, lean feed conversion, and carcass lean percentage. The optimal use of Paylean including level and duration of use will be dependent on carcass pricing system ability to detect and reward the pork producer for the extra pounds of lean. Paylean has been shown to have little impact on pork quality. "
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[YorkDuroc]

I agree Darin, poor Rod is just trying to boost the ratings of his show.

After doing my homework (that would be research for you, Rod), it seems that the only reason Rod joined Showpig.com is to post various articles slandering the United States pork industry gathered from news sources around the world. On April 27, 2007, Rod made his inaugural post on this website, with a poorly worded article that was reported by The Chicago Dairly Herald. Below is a quote of his post:

[quote:cadd07d4f9]
the Chicago Daily Herald reports an Oklahoma show pig producer is quarantined for fooding contaminated feed. (recalled dog food with melamine.) know anything? concerned about premix or complete feed contamination? please advise[/quote]

Three months later, Rod has graced us with his latest post, degrading the Showpig industry, and those involved in it.

Rod, I have a few questions I would like for you to answer below:

1. Compared to the number of "commercial" finished hogs, what percentage of "showpigs" are actually exported to other countries throughout the world.

2. What do you think the percentage of "showpigs" at market weight compared to the number of "commercial" at the same weight is in the United States

3. In relation to question two, what is percentage of "showpigs" entering the food chain compared to the percentage of "commercial" pigs entering the food chain?

I am under the impression that you seem to think that the vast majority of the market hogs entering our, as well as those exported to other countries , are in fact "showpigs." This is not the case, I'd suggest that you leave your fairy-tale world and wake up. Maybe if you would actually step outside of your cubicle in your office and actually visit various hog farms, both commercial and "showpig" based, you would realize there is a difference. I also like how you demean "teenagers" in that they are the only ones that have ever "abused" paylean. Thank you (this would be sarcasm), as I am one of the people that would fall into the "teenager" age group. You do realize that paylean was originally used in commercial finishers, don't you? Wow, I wonder if some of these larger commercial companies that you mentioned might have ever abused Paylean! I would have asked you, but I'm sure you would reply with something such as, "Certainly Not." Rather than maybe pushing towards the present and previous actions of a few aforementioned "commercial" powers, you decided to take your fundamentalistic, PETA-influenced thoughts out on those in the "Showpig" industry.

Last but not least, to my fellow Showpig.com members, I have also discovered that Rod was at one time a Republican candidate vying for a seat in the Illinois State Senate. Isn't it nice to now that it's people like these that want to influence our agricultural industry?


John.

[hoglover]

I found this article interesting.

http://www.pigprogress.net/home/id1602- ... e_use.html

It talks about how Taiwan is increasing penalties for ractopamine use. The thing I found interesting was that it only found [color=red:418bee46e5][b:418bee46e5]TRACES [/b:418bee46e5][/color:418bee46e5]of ractopamine in [color=red:418bee46e5][b:418bee46e5]two [/b:418bee46e5][/color:418bee46e5]shipments of imported US pork and some samples of [b:418bee46e5][color=red:418bee46e5]LOCAL[/color:418bee46e5][/b:418bee46e5] pork and goose meat.

The article also says that "Police and customs officers seized a large amount of raw materials used for production of ractopamine in raids around the country last week." To me that means the Taiwan police are finding ractopamine in local Taiwan farms.

Makes you go Hmmmm..... doesn't it?

[RingMaster]

Annnnnd Rod's case just died...

[rod]

please consider this an open invitation to come on the air live during FARMRADIO between 6-7 am monday through friday to debate and discuss this. anyone? please contact my producer via email and we'll set it up asap, and make it available on the web. we can accomodate up to 3 guests at a time. if three of you want to get together and plan it, thats fine. it might make it more fair. I'll be waiting.

[Hog_Whisperer]

Who didn't see this coming?

[Non-Sequitor]

Not interested, we have all seen the way you ignore the facts presented to you and the way you jump from supposition to accusation. Anyone would be foolish to enter into a format where you control the mute button and can shout down any opposing opinions or the presentation of facts.

Yes, you can read that as a statement that I am afraid to debate you on your turf. Why don't you set-up a debate on the subject in front of an informed live audience, in a neutral setting. Some place like the National Barrow show? Then facts could be argued.

Nice try.

[rod]

you got it. name the topic at the NBS or another. drugs, gest. crates, antibiotic resistance, contract production, industry concentration, manure oops (nutrient) management, COOL, or any other. Thanks Rod Thorson

[hogluvin]

OK I have read enough........ "teenagers giving 2-3 times more" First off the more I read the more upset I am getting. I am a 4H advisor and I feel by saying that you are taking away so much credit from the kids. Keep in mind there are KIDS. It is their projects and alot of them work their butts off raising these pigs. Where do you hink they even get paylean?? If it comes in the food it is regulated by the USDA. there is at most 9 grams per ton. If they are buying as a topdress it is pretty damn expensive. So where is coming from?? Their parents!!! If a parent or their advisor has knowledege of it SHAME ON THEM.... All that does is teach their children to be irresponsible. But for you to put the blame directly on "teenagers" is wrong. Besides if you give a pig too much that pig just falls apart. They cant walk right they become stressed. So why would they even do that themselves. You cant show a pig like that. Its a case of more is not better.

I have also NEVER heard of it effecting the meat.

Do you have kids?? Im going to guess if you do they do not raise animals to take to the fair. Or you would know how much work goes in to what they do.

[rod]

I have 4. we raise cattle, and have shown steers, meat rabbits and poultry. 4Hand FFA are fine, and I was in both. Why don't you ask the University folks at the state fair why they're testing for banned substances constantly. And why the very same colleges won't say no to the agribusinesses that peddle the same stuff? I cover 10 fairs per year and this is the first time that an ag teacher has suggested that I don't work as hard as they do. I know you work 12 months, unlike other teachers, but not 4 am until 10 pm everyday, like i do. the reason people in the pork industry have been mentally conditioned so easily since 1996 is that tenured teachers didn't open their minds and ask critical questions. and because of that, about the only opportunity to make a living in swine production that exists today is as a hog house janitor on contract for the man. and by the way, I've fed a lot of livestock, and I don't take feeding advice from people who buy feed with money that they get from the board of regents.

[hoglover]

In case your interested in the orginal article, here's the link.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ ... 2003372080

[okie]

AG teachers work 24/7 365 days a year. They have people calling them in the middle of the night to help with farrowing and other stuff. They stay out at shows and dont get home until 4 or 5 am sometimes. They have their students with them constantly. When their not in their class room/shop, they are probably busy doing something else for their students. Do you honestly think you work as hard as an ag teacher? I would doubt it. Your sitting down in a building every day from 4 am to 10 pm? Thats nothing. Being an ag teacher consumes your life. Every student/parent should thank their ag teacher every chance they get. They work hard.

[rod]

you'd never make it in media. the minute somebody didn't like a hard question and criticized you, you'd quit.by the way, in your ag classroom do you have your students read something other than traditional farm magazines? agree or not with me on this forum, you're better informed now about our trading partners than you were at this time last week when you were consumed by the results of the summer type conference. take it like a man.

[okie]

First of all, im not an ag teacher. Just stating how hard Ag teachers have to work. They aren't given enough credit. I'm not really sure if im more educated or not. In fact, I think i might be a little less knowledgeable now. [/b][/u]

[kgb]

Rod, after reading your posts the only thing I have learned is that you think an awful lot of yourself, and precious little of others.

That is too bad. You sound like an intelligent man. That is a shame.