Ideas on farrowing irregularity?

RobsShowHogs · Post by **RobsShowHogs** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:34 pm

So I have 1 sow and 2 gilts that are due to farrow right now. The sow was bred over 3 days (don't ask why, I didn't do it) so she is either at 114 on Wed or today. Last night she was laying down and breathing really slowly, and was pulling her back legs up toward her stomach like contractions. She would grunt like she has little ones when I pulled on her teets and would roll more to her side like when she had a litter last year. So I checked her every hour throughout the night and got nothing. This morning she was up and moving around. When I tried to check her vulva for discharge she got real irritated and tried to push me out of the pen. Is that normal? I know she could go tonight or tomorrow and it wouldn't be off so I'm not super worried yet. She does not have any milk but last year didn't get any until about a half hour before birth.

The two gilts are entirely different. One of my gilts is a little on the small side (it's been a pretty cold winter thus far) and the other one is about normal. The little one should be at 115 today and is showing no signs of teets or vulva swelling. The big gilt is a little bit and she is at 114 today. We had all three pigs ultrasounded about a month ago to make sure they had not absorbed and believe all three should still be bred.

If anyone has any suggestions and or explanations that would be great! Last year the sow was right at 115 days, but didn't do what she did last night until the night she went.

SpotHogs · Post by **SpotHogs** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:45 pm

If you want to cut out the guessing game hit them all three with 2cc's of Lutalyse and if they haven't farrowed a follow-up in 12 hours. This will induce labor but it is not reccomended until they are 72 hours within their due date, which doesn't sound like this is an issue with you at this point. We Matrix all of our sows to group them together for breeding and then Lutalyse them when we crate them so that they all farrow and wean at the same time.

Good Luck!

http://www.lutalyse.com/product_overvie ... species=SW

RobsShowHogs · Post by **RobsShowHogs** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:13 pm

Will this cause them to bag up as well? I don't want to have her give birth and have no milk. I think I might try it if I can get ahold of some. I'll have to call the vet in the morning.

RobsShowHogs · Post by **RobsShowHogs** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:29 pm

Will oxytocin do the same thing? I have some of that already and wouldn't need to call the vet.

SpotHogs · Post by **SpotHogs** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:06 pm

No, Oxytocin will only cause uterine contractions or make her drop her milk. It will not yield the same results as Lutalyse. They are completely different.

She will produce milk once labor is induced. After you administer the Lut do not administer Oxytocin, this will only cause contractions. Read the Oxytocin instructions. Let her have her babies and administer 1/2cc of Oxytocin 24hrs after labor. She cannot be having contractions when you admin. the Oxytocin or it will cause them to be more intense.

RobsShowHogs · Post by **RobsShowHogs** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:16 pm

Thanks. I gave the vet a call and hopefully she gets back to me. It would be great to get them to go tomorrow night or Sunday morning. I have a 6 hour drive back to where I go to college and have to leave Sunday night sometime. The gilts really have no milk and are not bagging up. Hopefully she will have milk with labor! I'd really like the little rats to be here so I can stop worrying.

RobsShowHogs · Post by **RobsShowHogs** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:53 am

If I induce now will it affect their natural birth process for the next breeding? I'd really like to get things moving but on one hand I'm worried they won't get milk and I'll have a bunch of piglets to hand feed. I have heard it's better to just wait it out but I'd really like to be home for this. What's the best solution?

I just checked and neither of the two gilts are very swollen and the teets are not filling. =(

RobsShowHogs · Post by **RobsShowHogs** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:56 pm

Update. STILL NOTHING. The vet will not induce. She said that she talked to other vets and they told her it was a bad idea. That is causes a lot of side effects and problems and such. Anyway, my sow is at 117, one of the gilts is at 116, and the other gilt is at 118. So hopefully soon. none of them have milk or and the two gilts are not bagged or swollen. one of the little gilts has a little clear discharge. Their bellys sure are getting big though. =(

jhmt · Post by **jhmt** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:45 pm

It is not a "bad idea" to induce labor unless you don't know when they were bred. It is done all the time in large units to get all the sows farrowed out before the weekend.
The clear discharge should mean that the gilt is getting ready to have her pigs. I have had sows that don't show milk until they are farrowing and have also had a couple that don't nest as strong as others. They might bite the bars once or twice and that's it. If they go over by to much more, the pigs will get bigger and you might have farrowing problems. I have used Estrumate to induce if you can't get Lut. It's 1/2 ml now and 1/2 ml in 12 hours if nothing is happening. This is per instructions from WSU. Hope it helps.

ter · Post by **ter** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:40 pm

I know that the our swine vet from purdue has told us that she recommends inducing a gilt if they go over one day past their due date. Granted this is only recommended if you know the exact date that they were bred. Otherwise, they can get to big and you will have a lot of other problems. She gave us lut when we had to induce since she went a day past her due date and didnt really show any signs of coming into labor. These are the exact directions on the bag ( I still have them) "Give 1 dose (1 ml) in the crease beside the vulva. Should start farrowing in 24-36 hours. If farrowing does not start after 36 hours then give second dose"

SpotHogs · Post by **SpotHogs** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:10 pm

You want a HOG VET? Call Dr. Dale Hendrickson and ask him (765) 468-6099

It is NOT good to have your gilts go past 116 and DEFINATELY not your sows!

Good luck!

The Lut protocol calls for 2ml IM to induce within 72 hours of due date. 85% of all sows/gilts tested farrowed within 36 hrs. We use the Lut religously and haven't had one sow or gilt go past 36 hrs and every sow is documented.

Piggy · Post by **Piggy** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:45 pm

If you are SURE of your breeding date, Lute is indeed called for, if you don't use it, you gonna have a lot of trouble with BIG PIGS being pulled. Good luck.

RobsShowHogs · Post by **RobsShowHogs** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:55 am

This is what I have told my vet. There are very few hog breeders around here and no one seems to know anything. I know the vet has never dealt with pigs before, I guess they don't teach that in vet school anymore. I told her what I've learned on here and she still thinks we should wait it out. It's not like I can get the stuff myself. I think I will call that vet that was mentioned on here. Everyone around here seems to think "let it go the natural way" but from what I've read on here that can be disasterous. I know the exact dates they were bred because we AIed them. Maybe Dale Hendrickson can call my vet and help her out. I ended up having to go back to school so I won't be there for the farrowing. One of the people we talked to (in the Denver area) told us that they can be a week late and be fine. That scares me. He told my FFA advisor to wait until Thursday (which would out the sow at 120, the little gilt at 121, and the big gilt at 119) to give the lut.

Darin · Post by **Darin** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:21 pm

Ok, I'll weigh in.

If you are 100% positive in your breeding dates, there is NO REASON whatsoever NOT to induce these females to farrow by day 116. Period. Each day you let pass is adding further risk to the equation. Get it over with and get those babies out nursing. There is nothing to be gained by waiting. Nothing. At day 116, they are full-term, they will be decent-sized and able to survive. At day 120, you may end up pulling them out of the sow one piece at a time. You can help live pigs survive. You can't bring stillborns back from the dead.

Good luck.

RobsShowHogs · Post by **RobsShowHogs** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:38 pm

I had my mother print the posting on this site and bring them to the vet. Hopefully I can get somewhere. I'll keep updating.